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488 Service - Turbo Failure, anyone else?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RRL, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. RRL

    RRL Rookie

    Jul 20, 2009
    1
    CA
    Took 2017 488GTB in for scheduled service on its 2nd birthday. There was a faint 'vibration' or 'fan noise' coming from driverside rear air intake while car was in motion under low revs. Service tech called and said TURBO failed, and they need to order replacement. Car has <1000 mi and hasn't been over revved or tracked. Didn't notice if it was down on power bc it's been a Sunday driver last few months.

    Anyone else experience failed turbo on a 488? Disappointingly there are no (zero!) replacement turbos avail in the US currently. Could that mean there are multiple failures of these causing on hand inventory to be depleted? Oh, and the most frustrating part, Ferrari won't air freight the replacement turbo. Service teach stated it will come ... by sea.
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    Not surprised. Turbos are a consumable item it seems. They fail all the time no matter the make.
     
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  3. MerlinTech

    MerlinTech Formula Junior
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    Mar 5, 2010
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    I would think that the low miles and soft driving just shows that some times, parts fail. That is why they have warranties.
    Most part failure warranty situations are with low miles. The fact that they don't have one and there is very little heard about turbo failure leads me to believe you just got a bad one and the new one will probably last for the life of the car. I did a resurrection on a 92 XJ 220 and sent the turbos off to be inspected. The turbo expert said they were great and just run them. I did, the car runs great, turbos have no issues. I don't think they are a consumable, I could be wrong though.
     
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  4. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Depends on the turbos.
    Older tubos in my experience lasted a long time.
    The newer turbos especially with Newer variable vane tech ware out quickly
     
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  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,763
    This is not good news to second and third hand <potential> owners.
     
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  6. MerlinTech

    MerlinTech Formula Junior
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    It has always been that way. I have repaired low mileage engine issues that should have been warranty that were customer pay when they were found.
    Had one engine with a thrust bearing in backwards that needed a crank. Had another that broke a cam that was clearly cracked in production and failed at 1200 miles years out of warranty. So this is nothing new.
     
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  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I personally(not that i am that well connected) have only heard of this turbo failure. Not to say there are nit any others but at this point it seems as others have said just a fluke or rare occurance.
     
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  8. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    #8 Solid State, Dec 8, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
    Given the rotational speed, operational temperature, heat cycling, heat soaking and manufacturing complexities of variable vanes a modern turbo should be considered consumable IMO. Not a positive in the resale market. Failing at year two on a typically low use Ferrari sounds premature though. I'd keep an eye on the other turbo if one already went out.

    Edit: Just out of curiosity, I see the cost for one turbo is $10,381 not including labor, shipping, tax, gaskets or any other consumables. Would be interesting to see what the dealer quotes for the replacement cost.
     
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  9. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    13
    Hello. I have the same problem . My 488 has now 12.700km and when I was driving this weekend on “a hole” in the road , a message appears on the left screen « limited performance » and directly the car not respond as normal . I stopped and at idle I was hearing a metal fan noise coming from driver side near the motor and the same at very low speed . Car was since yesterday at official dealer here in Belgium, and they called me, it’s turbo failed need to be replaced ... the passenger side turbo was inspected and it’s good.
    From beginning, all the warming times or cooling times were respected , very careful with the car.
    Ferrari don’t agree to take it in charge they says no warranty for turbo . I don’t appreciate that reply.
    Total 13.000€ labour included .


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  10. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    13
    Has I explain at the end of your post, I had the same problem.

    Now your car has how much kilometers ? No more turbo problem or something else ?

    Best regards from belgium


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    There better be a warranty on the turbochargers or some lawsuits are going to fly.
     
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  12. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Jun 3, 2011
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    there is no reason for Turbos to fail on a production car at such low mileage .... I can see an occasional screw up on a new turbo but you have to remember turbos are very common on new cars for the last several years and that get hundreds of thousands miles ... Ferrari should warranty these ......turbo 911 have been around forever
     
  13. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Unfortunately turbo failures are very common on newer cars. Have sent quite a few Audi products back to the dealers for warranty repair. Cars that are just out of warranty seem to eat them. We must be replacing at least one turbo a week in the VAG products due to failed oil seals or seized wastgates.

    That said ..the Porsche turbos seems to be very good we don't see to many issues with those.

    I have zero barometer for the 488 turbos failing as they are still under warranty and dont see too many coming in except for tires and general services..
     
  14. Mighty Joe

    Mighty Joe Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2010
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    .....There are lots of 488's out there....If this is a common issue I think it would be a huge deal by now...
     
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  15. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 Formula 3
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    Failed oil seals were prevalent in the 90’s. I would have hoped that was fixed by now.

    The early VGT turbos from Garrett were a POS. I was hoping that technology would be better 20 years later. TSB’s to tap with a hammer and cycle with the computer while driving to dislodge stuck components. Tale tale sign was what we called turbo Fart (noise in the intake on spool down) and no power.

    Lastly I have a Porsche with a turbo so that is good to hear on their longevity.
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    A turbo by nature should be classified as a consumable. It must live in a vary harsh environment in order for ot to do it job. Components on the heat side will only last so long until complete failure. They say it's free hp..I suppose in one way they are correct..but paying the bill to keep getting the "free hp" really shows how much it costs.
     
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  17. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    Apr 28, 2013
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    Turbos may be a consumable, but I have a 1997 Freightliner truck that has almost 300,000 miles on it , with the original turbo. Living in the heat of the exhaust. A turbo that fails in under 30,000 miles indicates a PROBLEM. Engineering of the car, or the part, it's still a failure. For Ferrari to sell a car at 300K and not cover a turbo that fails prematurely is despicable.
     
  18. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 Formula 3
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    May 2, 2012
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    I would think the heavy truck environment is better for a turbo as it is larger and more room for cooling. Also a lot of oil in the crankcase to help with cooling and keeping it well lubricated. Detroit and Cat have been using Turbos on production vehicles far longer and in larger volumes. More time for tweaking.

    Both failures Mentioned seem to be on the drivers side And a metallic noise. Just a thought since there is plenty of oil in the sump I am curious as to the oiling pathway as that sounds like a bad “bearing” allowing the compressor wheel to float out of tolerance and rub.

    Could there be enough mileage on these cars causing the oil to cake up from lack of cool down thus the no warranty statement and is there even a cool down procedure to be followed?
     
  19. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    Jan 1, 2011
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    I've been owning & driving turbo cars since the 80's and I worked at two of the larger industrial engine companies for awhile. Here's what I've learned about turbo cars:

    1. The engine must be thoroughly warmed up to normal operating temperature before you hit the loud pedal. This isn't just a conservative recommendation from the manufacturer, it's mandatory for the well being of the engine in a turbo car.

    2. Conversely, the engine must be allowed to cool down before you shut it off. You cannot come roaring into a parking lot and hit the kill switch. That will cook whatever oil is left in the turbo, and the oil seals will fail in short order, and it's not good for the rest of the engine either.

    3. Turbos "must" have clean oil at all times. Respect shorter oil change intervals, and of course use only premium quality oil. Not a bad idea to start an oil analysis program with a turbo car, as if/when a turbo has a catastrophic failure, bad things will happen to the rest of the engine.

    4. On several of my turbo cars I fitted a prelube/postlube system to the engine so I could ensure the bearings throughout were well lubed before a start, and the turbos had oil flow to them after the engine was shutoff. This may have been a little OTT, but then I've never had a turbo failure on any of my cars.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    John- Funny, but 4 would probably void the warranty.
     
  21. versamil

    versamil Formula Junior
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    I agree totally with Cribj. I owned a repair shop for twenty five years, and one of the cars I worked on a lot was one of the worst cars of all time- Maserati BiTurbo.
    I had to educate my customers about letting the car run for a few minutes after a quick drive, or they had to think ahead, and drive more sedately when they were going to shut the car off. The bearings in the turbos, totally would coke up with carbon from the oil just sitting in the turbo and baking after shut off.I considered installing the pre oiler kits at the time, but considering the liability it would put me under as a shop owner, never did. The engines were prone to leaking from brand new, I certainly didn't want to add something that has the potential to cause the engine to blow out all of its oil.

    Lot's of car manufacturers have turbos, and most of them last quite awhile. When one fails prematurely, and again I consider premature as being at least under 30K miles, then there is an engineering error, or a parts failure problem. Ferrari's tend to live a blessed life. No one is driving their cars for twenty thousand miles without changing the oil. the engines certainly contain more than two gallons of oil, so there's no shortage of oil to dissipate the heat. I've been out of auto repair for twenty years, and just figured turbo failures was something that has been solved. Reading these posts make me pretty happy to still have a 458, and NOT to have traded it for a 488.
     
  22. RaceMX-M3

    RaceMX-M3 Formula Junior
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    Dec 15, 2010
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    Hard to believe a car under warranty would not cover the turbos. Is there language in the warranty that specifically excludes the turbos? Doesn't compute.
     
  23. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    Aug 25, 2004
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    1 Turbo replacement in my personal experience , data logger said failure occurred roughly 90 seconds after start up, under 100% load...
    Not saying there aren't others, but this is my only experience. Ferrari covered the failure. Ferrari overnighted the parts required for replacement.

    To the OP:

    1. Are you the original owner?
    2. Any aftermarket items on your car at all, software, aftermarket exhaust, anything?
    3. Have you serviced the car only at the Ferrari Dealership? ( Any in between , DIY , oil changes, etc?

    Curious to know, this is an interesting accusation.

    S
     
  24. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    Turbo's are a covered item under the factory warranty.
    ( Assuming no outside influence )

    S
     
  25. xav488

    xav488 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2019
    13
    Hi, I’m the second owner at 3.200km...
    always serviced at official dealer , no aftermark parts , and the car has the services included for 7years.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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