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5 Error Messages about Gearbox - Ferarri California 2009

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by hryksbt, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    My California occasionally has an event where it knocks at low speed and jumps from 3rd to 5th gear without being able to shift into 4th gear at the same time.
    When this happens, the check light comes on, indicating a gearbox failure.
    However, 2nd and 6th gears are fine.
    Stopping the engine for a while will fix the problem, but it may happen again the next day or so.
    It doesn't matter how hot the weather is, it happens even during cooler hours.

    So, I had the repair shop run the diagnostic equipment, and the following five messages were confirmed.
    Even the repair shop had difficulty in deciding whether to just replace the speed sensor or not.

    No.1 P0791 - In clutch speed even too high
    No.2 P1929 - App thermal protection even invalid signal (even clutch thermal protection rigging too fast)
    No.3 P1977 - App synchro 2nd too high (2nd gear control fault can't reach)
    No.4 P197D - App synchro 4th too high (4th gear control fault can't reach)
    No.5 P1983 - App synchro 6th too high (6th gear control fault can't reach)

    I believe that 3.4.5. are common symptoms of speed sensor failure, but considering all the errors from 1. to 5., is it safe to just replace the speed sensor?
    Are there any other parts that need to be replaced? (Gaskets, etc. will be new, of course.)
    If anyone has experienced the same problem and has repaired it, I would be very grateful for your answer.

    Thank you very much for your help
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  3. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    Isn't it possible that the cause of these problems is simply dirty DCT fluid, resulting in dirt buildup on the solenoid, or that the oil pressure or speed sensors are no longer measuring the correct values?

    Please just tell me if this is a possibility or not.

    Thank you for your time.
     
  4. windsock

    windsock Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    651
    Arlington, Washington
    Common failure, you have a failing speed sensor set in the back. Speed sensors need replacing. Once complete you need to perform a valve cleaning procedure with the scan tool and a self learn of the gearbox. Typically the repair is about $10,000.
    We do several of these a month.
     
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  5. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    Thanks for the reply.
    I'm also getting errors related to SAP and CCP, is it considered that the replacement is only for the speed sensor?
     
  6. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    Can you please answer?
     
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  8. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    I would like to try the valve cleaning procedure mentioned by @windsock.
    However, the mechanic I'm hiring now says he can't find that menu in the diagnostic machine.

    If anyone knows the procedure for performing the valve cleaning procedure, could you please let me know?

    Your help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  9. windsock

    windsock Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    651
    Arlington, Washington
    What machine is he using?
    The only machines I currently know that have it are the factory tool and often it is blocked by the factory without a password from the factory for each VIN.
    The Leonardo also has it. I am unsure if Texa or Autel currently have the option.
    You have alot more going on in that gearbox then a valve cleaning. The speed sensor assembly needs replacing.
     
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  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    16,370
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    There is no cheap way around this problem unfortunately. Autel although good, is limited in some areas.
     
  11. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    #9 hryksbt, Aug 23, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
    Thank you.

    I also understand that the speed sensor needs to be replaced.

    The mechanic I am asking has an Autel and another diagnostic machine, but neither of them could find the menu for the valve cleaning procedure.
    (I'm asking which diagnostic machine he has other than Autel.)

    Since it means that I have to perform the valve cleaning, I have to find the menu from the diagnostic machine.

    Could you please explain the specific menu location?

    A picture of the diagnostic screen would be very helpful.

    Also, is there a definite answer as to whether I need a password for each VIN to run the procedure?
    I am concerned that if a password is required, it can only be handled by an authorized dealer.

    Thank you very much for your help.
     
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  13. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    @windsock
    The mechanic still could not find any menu for cleaning the valve in the diagnostic machine.
    However, it seems that it is possible to move the solenoid valve while the car is stopped.
    Is this the valve cleaning procedure you are referring to?
     
  14. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2010
    794
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams

    You can have it rebuilt and installed without valve cleaning or learning procedure. It will learn as it goes.
    We have done this with Challenge cars frequently. It is still very costly to fix. If you have CCP or SAP issues and they need to be replaced, I would recommend replacing the transmission with a new one.
     
  15. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    It's true that the sensor unexpectedly outputs CCP and SAP errors at speed.
    But it could be that they are actually broken, or it could be that they are not, but just dirty and not working properly.
    Solenoid valves, as you know, can malfunction even if they are just dirty, right?
    I think there are some things I should try, such as changing the fluid, rather than replacing everything right away.
    In fact, there have been cases of solenoid valve problems being resolved by changing the oil in other vehicles such as Volvo with the same Getrag transmission.
     
  16. windsock

    windsock Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    651
    Arlington, Washington
    No a proper tool will have a valve cleaning procedure present. It runs the hydraulic pressure up to max and then cycles the valves at a high frequency to clean the pintle's. This is the difference between a $8,000 tool and a $40,000 tool.
     
  17. hryksbt

    hryksbt Rookie

    Jul 17, 2021
    9
    Aichi, Japan
    Full Name:
    Hiroyuki Shibata
    @windsock
    I got they need to do that with a proper tool.
    Thank you.
     

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