5 Million Dollar payout on an F430 with cracked exhaust headers and broken fuel pump?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Bigilo, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Bigilo

    Bigilo Karting

    Sep 28, 2013
    San Antonio, Texas
  2. energy88

    energy88 F1 Veteran
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    Jan 21, 2012
    Fredericksburg, VA & Sarasota, FL
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    $5.8 million in damages on a $90,000 car? That will probably be scaled back a lot on appeal.
  3. That’s bizarre.
    Hard to imagine an award greater than the value of the car, or even the repairs and time lost, esp since no injuries, loss of life etc occurred.
    Love to see the worksheet the judge used to come up with that number.
  4. BlacktopRacing

    BlacktopRacing Formula Junior
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    Sep 18, 2016
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    That amount is probably taking into account what the owner might have lost in occupational compensation IF he was a professional athlete or entertainer and had to miss a game or a show, but he is not and did not. I cant imagine any other circumstances that would allow the jury to award that amount unless he bribed them. I suspect the multi-million award will be removed, but still, as the article concluded, he will likely end up with the car for next to mothing.
  5. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Rookie
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    As much as I despise dealerships, I hope this doesn't hold. It's absolutely ridiculous for the dealership to be held liable for anything more than repairs, and that should only be for customer relations. What about the place that did the PPI? Do they get off free? This is why a lot of places wont do PPI's anymore.
  6. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula Junior
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    Feb 25, 2010
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    #6 Flea7, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    Wait....I deleted my original post.....

    So let me get this straight. The buyer ran a PPI and did he not know about the issue after the PPI that Ferrari dealership performed? I would think that the beef is with the PPI inspection and not the dealer.

    There is probably more to the story than what was reported in that article.....
    hamdog and turbo-joe like this.
  7. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
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  8. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Rookie
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    Aug 8, 2009
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    Mark Jones
    Punitive and fraud. Bad combination
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  9. INRange

    INRange Formula 3
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    Jan 27, 2014
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    What we have here is a runaway jury. This was tried in Federal Court (Autotrader online sale) and the Dealership took the position that the car was sold "As-Is" which we can all relate to. The difference is that the Dealership arranged the PPI and charged the buyer for it. Further, texts and emails communicated that the car was in "Excellent" condition. The Dealer completed the repairs suggested by the PPI but the cracked manifold was neither highlighted by the PPI or repaired. The jury seemed to convict the Dealership over their knowledge and failure to correct this problem as an "expressed warranty" (since Excellent Condition does not include a cracked header).

    In this case, the jury went way beyond anything reasonable but to understand it you would need to see the pleadings and the jury instructions. I will also suggest that the Dealership's attorneys were not familiar with Federal Courtroom procedures.
    John_K_348 likes this.
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    It says Dealer did catch the problems.
  11. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    Feb 28, 2004
    Mesa, Arizona
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    Robb Williamson
    #11 Robb, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    Mercedes dealer never sent the car to the Ferrari dealer initially for the ppi as paid by the buyer...

    But said they did and fraudulently claimed no issues. Would not fix any issues after claimed and found out by buyer.

    Screw the Mercedes dealer I say. :)

    But I find it odd that buyer did not pay for and talk to mechanics at the ppi dealer separately...

    I think this owner was on F-chat back when.

  12. one4torque

    one4torque Formula Junior
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    May 20, 2018
    San antonio
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    Jeff s
    from my exp people in the car business are generally untrustworthy.... as a whole..... the business model is based on taking advantage of the consumer in some form...... from the trade-in, to the vague sticker price, to the cheesy add-ons in finance....... and that is not even getting to the used car business in which lying is supported and promoted....... more power to the litigious consumer. Good luck and god speed.
  13. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Rookie
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    Aug 8, 2009
    Bear Creek, Ca.
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    Mark Jones

    Well, they are now familiar with fed court procedures.

    How this ended in court at all is no doubt a story in itself.

    The car dealer must have really pissed off the jury.
    LVP488, John_K_348 and Texas Forever like this.
  14. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    I think a big part of it is the actions the dealer took to avoid having to take care of any issues on the car - and the fact they represented it as excellent condition when it had obvious issues. I think I remember reading about this when the suit was filed and the list of stuff the dealer had done to jerk around the owner was pretty ridiculous. I honestly hope that it holds enough to knock them out of business, they shouldn't be operating.
  15. Scout123

    Scout123 Karting

    Nov 1, 2017
    As a 20+ year trial lawyer, I can almost promise you the article does not tell the whole story. Federal court requires unanimous verdicts in civil cases. So, something happened in this case/ trial to cause such a result. I always tell folks, unless you sat through the entire trial, saw all the testimony, etc. don’t pass judgment on what a jury does.
    hamdog, Mbutner, turbo-joe and 9 others like this.
  16. Scout123

    Scout123 Karting

    Nov 1, 2017
    From the article:

    “Citing cruel and unusual punishment, the dealership is appealing the ruling, hoping to get the multi-million dollar penalty lowered to $27,340.”

    “Cruel and unusual punishment?” That is not a civil term, and not grounds for an appeal.

    Also, it doesn’t state what the the verdict was for? It gives damage for repairs and consequential damages. One can only assume the remaining milllions are punitive damages under a fraud claim or a consumer protection state statute.

    Article’s goal seems to get sensationalized attention and not report the actual facts. Same thing happened years ago on news coverage about the lady burned by MsDonalds coffee.
    Mbutner likes this.
  17. MVDESQ

    MVDESQ Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2010
    Greenwich, CT
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    Matthew & Kristen V.
    Stories like this make me wonder why anyone would buy a late model Ferrari from a non-Ferrari dealer. When I got my car from a Ferrari dealer they did the certification inspection and it found all kinds of issues that were all identified and fixed before they could sell it and put the Powertrain Warranty on it. Makes me think that many of the troubled cars wind up at auctions that non Ferrari dealers buy from.

    To me this punitive damages award seems high but I’d have to know more about the facts of the case.

    Sent from my iPhone using mobile app
  18. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Ryan Alexander
    1. Insurer will pay the final number not the dealer
    2. Amount of punitives will almost certainly get remitted downwards

    Like Scout said, something must have happened to REALLY trigger the jury. Federal juries are infamously tough on plaintiffs, and federal judges are worse (fed court is the worst venue, the entire court is pissed off that you would dare ask for your rights to be enforced there and the court is hell bent on dismissing everything it can).
  19. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    There is. I've met Hamid and you can trust this account was greatly parsed down and missing important details. From what I learned, the dealer really deserves the financial punishment, but even Hamid believes it will be reduced considerably on appeal.
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  20. Scout123

    Scout123 Karting

    Nov 1, 2017
    Sounds like a man who has walked in my shoes.
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  21. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    Charleston, SC
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    It sounds like a jury is telling that dealership "we will not tolerate fraud" as much as you can't misrepresent a car saying it's in "perfect" condition and then hide behind the AS-IS clause when it's not.
  22. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    Yep. As a non-lawyer, I have sat at both tables. Juries are a lot wiser than they generally are given credit for. Despite all the lawyer doublespeak (who writes these stupid jury charges?), juries have a good nose for sniffing out who is lying. It doesn’t hurt when the opposition sends emails saying, “We’re going to destroy them. That will teach them to **** with us.”

    What always amazes me is the arrogance that keeps liars from settling. I guess nobody is willing to point out the King’s ass is bare naked.

    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
    John_K_348 likes this.
  23. one4torque

    one4torque Formula Junior
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    May 20, 2018
    San antonio
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    Jeff s
    I’m pleased w this initial result. Bravo.

    I won’t go into here, but I purchased a used Amg from a mb dealership... and they failed to disclose its full history...

    Also I bet you did not know mb dealers resell cars that were used as track cars.. as cpo..... some Amg driving academy cars end up at dealers... so proceed w caution.

    I hope this guy gets the full award.
  24. hamdog

    hamdog Formula Junior
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    Mar 21, 2005
    Northern VA
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    I’ll say this, there was enough evidence of fraud and misrepresentation that the jury came back with the verdict on all three charges in our favor in one hour. Case isn’t final yet so I’ll leave it at that.

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