500 Superfast, the Royal Ferrari

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by carvad, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
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    Santa Fe, NM
    I would think that the torque characteristics between the 4.4 liter Colombo 12 and the giant Lampredi 12 would be markedly different. And I think the independent rear suspension on the QM would handle differently from the live axle on the Superfast. But I have never driven a Superfast . . .
     
  2. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Jun 19, 2012
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    I am lucky enough to have spent a fair amount of seat time driving a 500 Superfast. We went through a car (not overhauled, just made everything work correctly) for a friend a couple of years ago. I was very impressed. Yes, they drive like a 330 GT 2+2, but seemingly better. Can't put my finger on it, but car handled better, not as ponderous feeling. Very impressive engine, super torque. Does everyting effortlessly. I liked it a lot. It drove better than their reputation, though this car had power steering. However, not the immense torque of a 410 Lampredi. Many years ago, in response to a question about Lampredi performance, I told a friend that with a Lampredi, "when you put your foot down, you hope the road goes where the car goes".
     
  3. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    what type and size engine in a 500 superfast?
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #204 miurasv, Sep 17, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
    Tipo 208 engine which is unique to the Superfast 500.

    4961.57cc, V12, SOHC, 24V fed through 3 Double Choke 40 DCZ/6 Webers developing 400 BHP.

    Some sources say this is a Lampredi/Colombo hybrid engine with Lampredi block but without the Lampredi fixed heads which were replaced with Colombo detachable heads. Others say that although the engine has Lampredi dimensions with the "long block" of 108mm between the cylinder bore centres, this is its only Lampredi feature, and is Colombo in type with pressed in liners and detachable heads. I'm sure Dyke will know.
     
  5. Dreambrother

    Dreambrother Formula Junior

    May 14, 2011
    257
    In response to earlier posts regarding the 500 Superfast at the Concours d'Elegance in 2012. Here is a nice movie.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8qC9nwTbo](HD) SCC: Ferrari 500 Superfast 1964 - #5951SF - Concours d'élégance Paleis Het Loo - YouTube[/ame]
     
  6. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    The Type 208 engine is 100% Colombo. It only shares some internal deminsions with the Lampredi V-12's.
     
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  8. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie
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    I thought the 3.3L was the last real Colombo block.

    john
     
  9. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    John: Everything through the Type 245 single cam 365 is Colombo architechure. Even a 275 GTB/4 is a Colombo block with a set of DOHC heads.
     
  10. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan Formula 3
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    I seem to remember someone walking round at the Ferrari 50th anniversary back in 97 with that printed on a T-shirt or something very similar?
     
  11. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    We made the T-shirts and gave them to other Lampredi owning friends.
     
  12. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Feb 16, 2004
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    Hi Dyke.

    Admittedly this is way off topic, but you're the man who'd know the answer to this one: Do the racing 330 four-cam family of P engines (i.e. Tipo 237/241/247) have liners which screw into the heads ala the mid-to-late 1950s four-cam V12 motors, (i.e. Tipo 136//140/141 in the 290/315/335 S cars)?
     
  13. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Terra: No they do not. They are conventional, with liners in the block.
     
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  15. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Terra: However, the cylinder head design of the P2 engine is a direct decendent from the Massimino engines (136, 140,141). Not exactly the same (no screw-in liners, etc.), but a development of the earlier heads.
     
  16. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Thanks for explaining.

    Were the 330 P3, 412P and 330 P4 cylinder heads in turn developed/evolved from the P2?
     
  17. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Terra: You are stretching my knowledge base, but I believe the P3/ 412 P is a development from the P2, but the three valve P4 was another leap forward in engine technology.
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #216 miurasv, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
    The engine in the 330 P3 was derived from the 410 BHP 330 P2 tipo 216 unit to become tipo 216 B using new pistons and camshafts as well as fuel injection, similar to that used on the F1 unit, replacing the carburettors of the P2, and now developed 420 BHP.
     
  19. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

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    DWR46: Alberto Massimino? What is exactly a Massimino engine? Only the 3 mentioned?
     
  20. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    The Tipo 136,140 and 141 four-cam V-12's were mainly designed by Massimino using a lot of Jano features in the valve train.
     
  21. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    409
    Thank you DWR!

    Interesting is the cooperation, interaction and influence between Jano, Colombo, Massimino, Lampredi etc.. Upon my knowledge little is known about who did exactly what, where and when at Fiat, AR, AAC, Maserati and Ferrari. Any sources available about that subject?
     
  22. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
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    Restored by Touring Superleggera in 2012

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.419783554785954.1073741835.139412812823031&type=3

    http://www.touringsuperleggera.eu/gallery/news/pdf/2013_VillaEsteTouringRestorationsFerrari500SFClassWinnerENG.pdf

    "At the Concorso d'Eleganza of Villa d'Este, a restoration performed by Touring Superleggera is Class Winner in the "C - Transitions" category. The Ferrari 500 Superfast Pininfarina # 5951 was restored to its original shape after compelling research and complex restoration that took place at the Touring atelier of Milan.

    The 500 Superfast was to be the last limited production and coach built Ferrari grand tourer of its period. The sport car was sold at a twice the price of the Ferraris of those times; the company call was for "a Ferrari for sovereign, movie stars and chief industrialists".

    Of the 36 units built, 34 are accounted for today a nd 2 crashed in accident. The #5951 frame is particularly interesting because it is the prototype and the first of the series at the same time. Originally exhibited on the Pininfarina booth at the Geneva Motor Show in 1964, it featured a raised hood and one-piece rear lights. When the car entered pro duction, the bonnet became flat and the rear lights were replaced with 3 single carry-over lamps. Before bei ng delivered to a German customer, the show car underwent the same changes and was repainted in a darker shade of metallic blue.

    The 500 Superfast was restored by the Touring Superleggera workshop in 2012 to satisfy the current owner's desire to bring the car back to its prototype conditions, just as it was exhibited at the Geneva Motor Show.

    The historical research was utmost challenging, as no plans of the original elements were available, and the paint manufacturer had disappeared in the meantime with its records.

    The Pininfarina archives supported in supplying original B/W photographs of the show. Starting from there, Touring developed a computerized 3-D model of the hood raise, milled a master model and finally shaped the hood to the pristine lines. The same pictures allowed machining the rear light units from solid perspex.

    When scratching the body to bare metal, no traces of the original colour were found. Eventually, the original blue appeared in a tiny area of the window frame below a number of successive sprays, from the Ferrari-specified blue to various filler layers. This was enough for the Touring technicians to reconstitute the authentic shade and return this important car its true shape and immaculate beauty."
     
  23. Mark Seligman

    Mark Seligman Rookie

    Apr 23, 2014
    2
    I remember inspecting the 1964 London Show car that was subsequently crashed. Its owner at the time was the father of a boy at my prep school (Mr Tomlinson from memory), and he brought it to Sports Day, probably in 1965 or 1966. It was indeed red. Some time later, the headmaster reported to us in Chapel how Tomlimson Senior had been driving on a back road near where he lived, and a tractor pulled out in front of him. He was killed.
    Very sad indeed.
     
  24. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Ferrari 500 Superfast #6345SF, registration EPL 5B, was crashed by Mr Tomkins in 1967 or 8.

    His son has contributed to this board in the past but I have not been able to find the messages just now.
     
  25. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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  26. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    That's right, and the first remark was his father's name should be spelled "Tomkins". Edit: though you spelled it correctly in post #222.
     
  27. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    Sorry, late at night when I posted!

    J
     

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