500 Testarossa 0636MDTR

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 500tr, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    #1 500tr, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This 1997 stolen iconic car is back again.
    A gentleman and real Ferrari enthusiast has found the car 2015 in Italy. It has never left this country since it's theft. An expert has confirmed the authenticity of the car. Now it is back in Germany and after an extensive restoration it soon will be back on track. The original engine will be reinstalled after more than fifty years.
    This is a real sensation because everyone thought the car is lost forever.
    Congrats to the owner of this beauty 😉
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  2. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    #2 500tr, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    #3 500tr, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    #4 500tr, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    That's great news!
     
  6. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    I read about this story in a german magazin some months ago.
    Just awesome that the "real" owner gets his baby back after so many years!

     
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  8. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    #7 500tr, Jul 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Wait, so it's not returned to Walter Schaefer from whom the car was stolen in 1997?
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Once an insurance company pays for the theft damage the property usually goes into the ownership of the insurance company.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    Usually correct, Marcel. But not in this case I'm very sure.
    Fortunately Schaefer did not lost it's property and he will be back on track in this very special car sooner or later. Let's wait and see. It will be a very pleasure for me to see him behind the steering wheel again...
     
  12. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    But interesting that this gentleman and not the insurance company reclaims ownership on the stolen car...
     
  13. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

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    For sure a tricky legal question ... more information available?
     
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  15. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO Formula 3
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  16. Wolf

    Wolf Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Hello,

    I am just a stupid M.D., not a lawyer, but how can this Mr Stehle buy a stolen car (in Italy, I suppose) and bring it to Germany without legal repercussions? Does that not fulfill the criminal offence of dealing in stolen goods? Why is the car not impounded by the authorities?

    Regards

    Wolfi
     
  17. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
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    Did they not find parts of the car soon after it was stolen? I imagine the current owner has been holding on to the bits and pieces of the car since then, likely voiding the full insurance pay out but retaining some part of the ownership? Interesting story and excited to hear more, but it'll be impossible to know all the details of what was likely a very complicated insurance deal.
     
  18. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Two points:

    1) Often an insurance company will allow the owner to purchase the car back from them if it's totaled out or recovered after theft loss, whenever they move to dispose of it.

    2) If the above were NOT the case here, and insurance paid out for loss, then the insurance co now owns the chassis, and and can sell it on with good title to whomever it pleases (laws differ in some countries as to whether it would be a clear or salvage title or bill of sale). Whomever buys it is NOT receiving stolen goods, so long as the party entitled to the car - if ever recovered - is the seller.
     
  19. Michael Stehle

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    Jun 6, 2013
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    Hello @Wolf,

    It is very easy! First I bought the car from the insurance company then I bought my car in Italy (in the case it is the real #0636 MD/TR)...
    The insurance got the rights of the car one month after the car was announced as stolen.
    Volkmar Spielmann claim to have the rights of #0636 after he "bought" them together with the stolen V12 engine (#1839) and some other stolen parts for 50'T Euro from Walter Schäfer. But at that time the insurance payed already € 500 T to the old owner.
    Spielmann sold the stolen engine which belongs at that time already the insurance for 100 T €.
    So he doubled his invest already!
    Now he try to make from nothing the real money!!
    Fortunately it is not allowed to sell engines which you do not own to others...
     
  20. Michael Stehle

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    Mr. Spielmann why you write this question when you already know the answer from the insurance where I bought the car?

    Do you think because you already lost your reputation by getting bankrupt you can destroy other people's reputation without paying for it?
     
  21. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    Maybe good connections to the state attorneys?
    Remember Wolfi, Germany is not far away from a banana republic 🙃🙃🙃
     
  22. Michael Stehle

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    Yes, this gentleman is proud of it! 🙂
     
  23. Michael Stehle

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    Yes, and here in Germany even lawyers are dealing with stolen things like engines, parts etc.
     
  24. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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  25. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

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  26. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
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    And: if in some jurisdictions someone buys stolen goods in good faith from a dealer, he gets a clear title and becomes the protected owner (e.g. Belgium and Swater’s 375+).
     
  27. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior
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    Maybe, but this gentleman was definitely not in good faith.
     

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