fantastic win, but it will be difficult agianst the Maserati's this season. congratulations. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
And the Enzo's depreciation has well and truly started I will officially laugh every time I read about an Enzo IF the MC12 (the race version of supposedly a race inspired [... coff, coff ... er, fncken BS] er, road only car the Enzo) keeps loosing to its road car sibling. Yeah I know the MC12's will get faster and eventually kick the 550/575 (whatevers) @rse ... but you have to laugh at the rediculousness of that race result ... if I owned a 550/575 I'd be cruising the streets looking for an Enzo to embarrass And before you say the race version of the 550/575's has about as much in common with the road car as I do with MS ... well think hard about the contradiction of design goals that makes the Enzo. Still laughing ... ... and the 550/575 race version even looks better!! Pete
Shouldn't it be 550 v. 575 instead of 550/575. Yes they are certainly based on the same car but the 575's did not have such a hot day. Please correct me if I am wrong but weren't all the 550's built by Prodrive? I only bring the point up because most people group the cars together were as the 550's have been pretty successful over the last few years but I have not seen much from the 575's since their inception. The 575 did have a number of quality finishes but the 550 has pretty much handed it to it. Perhaps it is in the driver but to me they are two different cars in the same way the C5 is not the C6? On the otherhand, I would like to see anything beat the MC12. I still have a problem with the idea behind the car being a race car er I mean "road car", but that is another story (CLK GTR, GT1 . . . ). I would like to see the Saleens step it up a another notch or so.
. Continuing on with my bashing of the Enzo, I just read in a new magazine test on the MC12 that it can never score championship points because it is too long and too wide, thanks to being based on the stupid fncken Enzo frame (even though they changed suspension pickup points and reverted to steel brakes, etc. ... yeah and the Enzo was supposed to a race car for the road, coff, spit BS ... funny that they had to change just about everything to actually race it ). All I can say is I'd love to be able to work for Ferrari. A company that lets you design utter ****, that does not comply with anything making it completely useless ... heck you would not survive 2 days in the real world. Pete
Pos Car Class Drivers Car Time #L Gap Speed 1 11 GT1 Lamy/Gardel Ferrari 550 Maranello 2:40:30.881 87 188.27 2 9 GT1 Bartels/Scheider Maserati MC12 GT1 2:40:31.802 87 0.921 188.25 3 10 GT1 Babini/Biagi Maserati MC12 GT1 2:40:32.337 87 1.456 188.24 4 16 GT1 Peter/Buncombe/Rusinov Maserati MC12 GT1 2:40:41.479 86 1 LAP 185.90 5 15 GT1 Bertolini/Wendlinger Maserati MC12 GT1 2:40:35.993 84 3 LAPS 181.68 6 12 GT1 Bryner/Calderari/Zacchia Ferrari 550 Maranello 2:40:53.555 84 3 LAPS 181.35 7 66 GT2 Lieb/Rockenfeller Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 2:41:41.849 84 3 LAPS 180.44 8 88 GT2 Collard/Sugden Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 2:41:43.931 84 3 LAPS 180.40 9 14 GT1 Keen/Halliday Lister Storm GT 2:41:56.659 83 4 LAPS 178.02 10 7 GT1 Ruberti/Camathias Saleen S7 R 2:40:50.335 82 5 LAPS 177.08 11 74 GT2 Moccia/Busnelli Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 2:41:16.977 82 5 LAPS 176.60 12 20 GT1 Stanco/Janus Saleen S7 R 2:42:43.097 80 7 LAPS 170.77 13 72 GT2 Racz/Venc Porsche 996 GT3 RS 2:41:19.868 79 8 LAPS 170.08 14 6 GT1 Longin/Kumpen/Hezemans Corvette C5R 2:24:23.492 78 9 LAPS 187.63 15 8 GT1 Pickering/Haupt Saleen S7 R 2:39:49.725 78 9 LAPS 169.50 16 63 GT2 Kaufmann/Jurasz Porsche 996 GT3 RS 2:41:53.149 77 10 LAPS 165.20 17 4 GT1 Verdon-Roe/Becker Saleen S7 R 2:13:38.543 70 17 LAPS 181.91 18 69 GT2 Ried/Ried Porsche 996 GT3 RS 2:41:11.687 68 19 LAPS 146.51 19 3 GT1 Melo/Belloc Ferrari 575 Maranello GTC 2:07:35.315 67 20 LAPS 182.37 Not Classified -- 101 G2 Balfe/Derbyshire Mosler MT900R 2:42:24.389 59 N.C.F. 126.15 -- 58 GT2 Castro/Premoli/Barbaro Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 1:50:01.392 53 D.N.F. 167.26 -- 56 GT2 Vonka/Amaduzzi Porsche 996 GT3 RS 1:24:05.449 40 D.N.F. 165.11 -- 17 GT1 Bouchut/Fomenko/Vasiliev Ferrari 550 Maranello 1:08:21.930 37 D.N.F. 187.83 -- 2 GT1 Deletraz/Piccini Ferrari 575 Maranello GTC 1:21:18.166 37 D.N.F. 157.94 -- 5 GT1 Lechner/Konrad Saleen S7 R 1:00:19.876 32 D.N.F. 184.04 -- 13 GT1 Kox/Simon Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT 57:19.811 28 D.N.F. 169.43 -- 71 GT2 MacHanek/Studenic Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 47:13.605 24 D.N.F. 176.23 -- 78 GT2 Panzavuota/Taylor/Hauraney Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 46:37.814 23 D.N.F. 171.03 Fastest Laps -- 101 G2 Balfe/Derbyshire Mosler MT900R 1:55.142 9 112.54mph 181.12 -- 10 GT1 Babini/Biagi Maserati MC12 GT1 1:46.077 6 122.16mph 196.60 -- 88 GT2 Collard/Sugden Porsche 996 GT3 RSR 1:51.541 58 116.17mph 186.97
Jim, Hmmm, I just wanted to point out that my critisim of the Enzo/MC12 is only based on the fact that for some reason Ferrari did not appear to have any sort of a plan when they created these cars. I cannot fathom why, even though they were designing a street car (in the Enzo) they did not atleast think about making it fit within appropriate racing regulations. As you well know I am a performance is everything person ... but I only need performance on the track, thus a road car IMO should be a completely different animal with completely different design goals. Thus I just cannot understand the Enzo and now that I read that the race version the MC12 does not even fit any race series and thus a complete waste of time (regarding officially winning anything) I'm just left wondering what they put in the drinking water at Ferrari's design offices?? I still admire the cars technically ... and ofcourse atleast they are trying to race the technology now instead of completely wasting it. I believe you have decided not to purchase a MC12 as it is not really road-able ... due to long overhangs ?? Anyway it sure put down an impressive lap time Pete
Maybe, but interestingly the McLaren F1 GTR was allowed to race (with some detuning). Atleast McLaren had the sense to make the car so it physically fitted in a class ... or were they just lucky The MC12 (from what I read) can never, ever score points ... thus races for er, for well I don't know why? Pete
Pete - according to Gordon Murray (I still haven't purchased *the* book yet, but...) he kept saying, "so this is NOT going to be raced, right?" And insisted it was a street only car. So, they did get lucky. As for the MC12, it will hopefully last longer than the ever gorgeous Murcie GT that was also destined for pointless racing. (excuse the pun there)
The official statement from the ACO: The AUTOMOBILE CLUB DE LOUEST has noted the decision taken by the AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES to put the MASERATI MC 12 on the list of entries for the coming SEBRING 12 HOURS it read. The AUTOMOBILE CLUB DE LOUEST reminds the parties concerned that the MC 12 does not comply with the Technical Regulations and is not homologated. Thus, this car is not allowed to take part in events run under the LE MANS label. To race in ALMS: The solo factory-entered MC12 will also be subject to performance penalties to keep it in line with the opposition. The car will start Sebring week with 110+ pounds of ballast, and IMSA officials reserved the right to add more weight or change the cars aerodynamic configuration, if necessary.
I completely disagree with remarks being made about the MC12 and the Enzo. The developers and designers of the Enzo and MC12 have done a fantastic job by not falling victim to group think. They have designed a race car that does not need to be categorized!!! The Enzo/MC12 is a whole new category! Automobile markets are just like any other product markets. The market can be segmented along the lines of performance, set GT or other race class guidelines, regular gear head blah blah blah OR the market can be segmented in completely different lines... BENEFITS! (something FRESH, something NEW) The MC12/ Enzo has great benefits... legendary passion, class, style, elegance, performance in it's own class and bold design. The Enzo is an ultimate tribute to Enzo Ferrari because it has created a niche for a different type of car segment. I like to call it the SUPER RACE CAR! The MC12 is clearly based on the Enzo and serves to enhance the brand image of the Ferrari Maserati group. I would really like to know what water they drink at the Ferrari factory so I could drink some of it too ! (PS: I actually do know what the preffered source of water at the factory is and drink it when available)
Let me also add to my ealier post by saying.... The MC12 and Enzo are a stoke of absolute genius because in all create's a whole new class or racing. A class of race cars that they are pioneers in!
I read that some where too where Gordon Murray had every intention of having the McLaren being a street car. It went along the lines of he was under the impression that it wasn't going to be raced. However, when he designed the car, he utilized all his skills and knowledge. What are his skills? What does he know? - Race Cars. It's a vicious circle.
Put the glass pipe down. The MC12 was put on the track to save face. If the MC12 came out spanking the crap out of everything on the track, you can bet that there would have been a race version of the Enzo. The MC12 is nothing but a test mule, and a marketing tool. Since the MC12 is not as great as they thought it would be, it saves face for the Enzo. So now the Enzo is, as they say in the martial arts world, nothing but a paper dragon. A lot of screaming, kicking, jumping in the air, breaking boards, and looking "scary", but in reality it isn't an effective fighter. The MC12 is just proving the point.
The MC12/Enzo does not need to beat other race cars in other classes. the whole idea is to create a new class in itself. If you go back to reading my original post, the Ferrari Maserati group have decided not to create an automobile based on traditional ways of segmenting the market. They are segmenting the market based on benefits. I have no doubt in my mind that the Enzo will retain its value and the MC12 will be succesful (infact it already is!).
And what exactly does that prove ... nothing!. The idea of racing (especially in this sort of events) is to beat other makes in the same class ... if you design a car that does not fit any class then you have no balls to challenge anybody else IMO. In the end I agree with Ernie, the MC12 was put on the track to try and make something REAL about the toothless Enzo ... unfortunately this nobel gesture has failed as nobody at Ferrari thought about the rules for such a car and thus the MC12 is proving nothing, and getting beaten by a mere road car design is a further kick in the mouth for the Enzo. Personally the first thing you should do when designing a supercar is look at the racing rules ... you can still do a Lambo and say it was never designed to race, but atleast if somebody changes their narrow mind it fits (accepting ofcourse that rules change ... not much you can do about that). In the end making a supercar that is enormous as Ferrari have is just plan nuts ... think about frontal area, etc. Have you all noticed how tiny the McLaren F1 is ... now that is real design, not just flashy looks, etc. Ferrari, as we know, can design anything well ... but too many of their road cars have become pointless in the modern years ... contradicts the foundation of the company IMO. Pete
I completely disagree. Ferrari have challenged the entire system of segmenting and organazing race classes by building the MC12. Now other manufacturers will have to design race cars on similar lines. PSk, Ferrari sales are higher than ever. All modern (post 1997) Ferrari roadcars have been exceptionally well built and are much more reliable in performance and quality than ever before. What people like you are afraid of is evolution. Every company has to stay true to the foundation on which they were built but must evolve with changing times. The Ferrari Maserati group is achieving great Financial success and increasing its popularity amongst future buyers.
