I am considering buying a flat 12 as 512BB. But I feel concerned by the maintenance cost of these cars equipped with distribution belt whereas you have to change it every 4 years , with full engine disposal, as I can read on FChat. Does some owner could tell me how much it costs (every 4 years)? Since it depends of hourly rate of the garage, it would be nice to know how many hours of labor to conduct it, any other costs (go course the belt, which shouldn't represent that much!). Any other comment for belts compared to my current 330 GTC equiped with chain? Thanks a lot for your answers.
@turbo-joe Dear Romano, I am sure you can answer that as you are expert on those cars! All the best Christopher
To be brutal, if you can afford a >$200,000 toy to complement your existing $500,000 toy, the maintenance costs are negligible. I have a Testarossa in the UK, full engine out <5K. Go buy one!!
I did first timing belt change on my own when I baught it in 2005. finished in 2006. was not driving much and in 2019 I took the engine again out ( so driven about not even 10.000 km ) and the belts looked like new, also the tensioners. I would say to replace the belts after max. 15 years or when more than 30000 km. my own personal meaning. my customers I say max. 10 years or 30000 km to be on the save side.
The cars are old enough now trying to determine average annual or 4 year costs is nearly impossible. For one thing in my experience an owner of a Boxer will put between 500 and 5000 miles per year. Big spread, too big to make many estimates on. At this point in its life its cost per mile or year is far more dependent on its history than anything. The last 3 cars I have finished more money was spent repairing poor quality prior repairs than what the car came here for initially. Big expensive transmission repairs are common on them due to the fragility of many of the parts. I have been doing big expensive transmission repairs on BB and BBi cars since not long after they came out and very few parts are available over the dealer counter anymore. Many need to be made. This is one area that past usage comes into play and at this age knowing what kind of use the car had is nearly impossible.
thanks Romano for your answer. If I read well, you would change the belt only every 10 years for some one ,as I am, with few mileage. It is pretty over what Ferrari, and some others owners/garages, recommend mentioning 4 years. But, indeed, the synthetic material of the current belts did probably improve, compared to the 80s, to have more solid belt's teeth. Due to your expertise, I take your point, meaning that the maintenance cost comes more reasonable. BTW, how many labor hours would you assume for this operation of changing the belt (if nothing big else found when deposing the engine...). thanks again, Jean-Paul
I had an '85 Testarossa, essentially the same engine, for ten years. I don't do track days, and I was averaging a bit less than 3000 miles a year. My mechanic told me that with my usage I could go ten years between belt changes, and I did that. When I bought the car, it was 20 years old, and so I asked my mechanic to replace critical rubber parts and the belt. He said that he could do a belt change on that car without dropping the whole engine out, and he did that, and it cost me $2.5K. Now the Ferrari dealerships will say that three or four years is the duration of a belt. My experience was otherwise.
when the engine is out, the valve covers away so I could use a degree wheel I would say max. 3 hours but to take the engine out it depends how rusty all would be. if all goes fine then 5 hours, but may be 10 hours will not be enough. you never can say this when you not know the car already before. also often it happen that when tighten the 6 mm nuts for the valve covers 1 or more studs coming out of the cylinder head. then remvoe the valve cover again, put in a time sert and same work again. very frustrating and time consuming but then he not used a degree wheel to adjust the timing right
Thanks to both of you Bob and Romano four your experience feedback and confirmation that 10 years is achievable without danger for a « match between valves and piston » due to tooth missing. #Romano, all your details are very interesting to understand, as a new commer on the flat 12, the job (Christopher was right when advising your expertise!). Anyway with this 10 years duration, the cost of the operation, is no more an issue. Best regards, Jean-Paul
jean-paul, with this material today I not see a problem of the time, only a problem of the hours the engine is running. so I would suggest latest after 50000 km to change the belts to be still on the safe side. but no warranty ! ! ! , only own experience and thinking but always have a look if there is oil and coolant leaking near the belts. then change before ! ! ! ferrari not says this since now, they ever told so - money making machine same as the red book
OK. I keep on 10 years, and between 30.000 & 50.000km, whichever the first. Will see, may be at 69years old!
There are no corners some will not cut. With Ferrari its easy to justify when you believe everyone is trying to take advantage of you.
Long story but at factory direction I once had the belt covers off of a TR with the engine in. The right side is not too hard but by the time the left is off if you are intent on not damaging the car, its probably easier and faster to just remove the engine. BB is far easier.
I heard of 355’s where u change the belts moving the fuel tank to avoid dropping the engine and saving money but I never heard that on a testarossa. Given the preventive maintenance one also does during a major I’d not recommend it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here's my 2 cents. If you're considering buying a BB or BBi, get the best car you can find, even if it means spending more. Preferably a car that has just had a major service, and one that has ALL the books/tools/receipts/paperwork, history etc. You won't be disappointed and will have a fun car to use for quite a while before you have to worry about maintenance. Actually I thin this can be said about buying any Ferrari! One thing I did, was to start buying spares as I came across them. So many items aren't available anymore and when one does find a NLA part it's best to latch onto it..imo.
Thanks Don to come back on this matter. You are right, adding to the fact that Newman explained clearly that the belts can be changed after much more that 3 to 4 years, so it is no more an issue. best regards, jean-paul
NEVER buy a car with a recent service. Why? 1) something expensive may have been discovered during the service and the owner said: ‘never mind….’ figuring that he’d sell it instead. 2) the ‘service’ was likely a ‘do as little as possible’ version rather than ‘while you’re in there, let’s get it done’. 3) any ‘bad service’ issues that crop up will likely NOT be addressed by the shop on behalf of a new owner. Better to negotiate the cost of a basic service off of the purchase price. ALWAYS get a PPI from a trusted shop.
to let do a PPI is always good, but even then a lot of things will be still not discovered. for example: torn out bolts from the zylinder heads, defective threads on the steering knuckle to fasten the calipers. both happened on my BB and I found it because both valve covers have been leaking and when I tried to fasten the 6 mm nuts I have seen the defective threads. such things noone will see when only doing a PPI, only when doing a major and even then you not see all.
I have always bought a car 'pre' major, never 'post' major. By accepting the risk of defects unknown to both parties (a calculated risk) I can negotiate the price with a little more leverage and can also make my own decisions about how deep I want to get into it when it is apart. A seller who just wants to be able to say it has had a recent service in order to sell it will just do the minimum, i.e. belts, maybe a water pump seal and valve clearance check.
Especially this! Absolutely zero incentive by the seller or the shop do perform a thorough service. Unless you know the shop well, or if you plan on using the shop moving forward, I would always negotiate the expensive out of the selling price. You may also notice that many cars are advertised with the service included in the purchase price. What recourse do you have if something goes wrong? Especially if you are moving the car to another city/country. My Boxer was serviced by Paul prior to delivery because I know Him personally, my 308 I negotiated the service out of the price, imported the car and didn’t know the shop at all.
