News

512 BBI Boxer Engine Out Major Service S/N 40565

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Dave Bendl, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    It's been 10 years since 1982 512bbi SN 40565 received it's last engine out major service. Last done in the winter of 2007-2008 in my home garage, it was posted and detailed on F-Chat http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/boxer-major-in-a-not-so-mega-garage.173325/

    I don't recommend a 10 year duration for an engine out service. This was at my risk. Do this all over again, I would have elected a 7 maybe 8 year duration.
    40565 was driven 6,168 km within the last 10 years. While many may feel that's a low figure, that's more than it was driven for the first 20 years of it's life.

    A Summary of 10 years of what I call "Fun Factor"
    Purchased in 2004, I bought the car with the main purpose of "increased fun factor". That to me means driving, showing the car, and turning wrenches to maintain it.

    In 2006 I drove the car from Chicago to Washington DC for the FCA International Meet. The car won a Platinum class award. After the event I drove the car back to Chicago straight for 17 hours. I'd never do that again regardless what car I drive. That's to long to be safe.

    In 2007, I drove the car from Chicago to Corning, NY for the FCA 2007 Meet. While in upstate western NY, we got off the Interstate for some back road driving. On the apex of a curve a horse drawn Amish carriage was there while I took the curve at high speed. I still remember how that horse looked a me in the mirrors. If it could have thrown me a middle hoof it would have. After the Concours, the car returned to Chicago with a Platinum class award and a Coppa Bella Macchina award. This completion is a judged dynamic competition of the car with a 100+ point checklist. All check points must pass, otherwise the entrant is disqualified.

    Later in 2007, the car was entered in local Barrington's Concours D' Elegance and won a Best in class award. While waiting in line to pull into winners circle, the car was hit by an old lady's head when she fell out of a wheelchair. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/boxer-punched-by-an-old-lady-in-a-wheelchair.180149/#post-137343882 Un-fun at the time, but it all worked out.

    In 2008 I drove the car from Chicago to Toronto again for the FCA meet. Meet F-Chat's Paul Newman while there. While being judged for the Coppa Bella Macchina competition, the pop up lights gave me a problem. Only one raised. Strange, since they were fine during the concours. In this competition you get 1 hour to correct a problem. If not, you are disqualified. I found that a 6mm nut worked lose that retains the light bucket linkage. Once cleared up the car secured a Coppa award, a concours Platinum and a major award, best Flat 12 (Forte award).

    In 2009 it was off to FCA Road America at Elkhart Lake. While sporting around the track early on a Sunday morning, just after the straight, and approaching the braking zone, I glanced in the mirrors to see Jim Fuch's BBLM waxing my tail. The hair on the back of my neck still hasn't returned to normal. 406565 came home with a Platinum, and Coppa Bella Macchina awards.

    2013 it was again off to FCA Road America again bringing home a Platinum , and the Ed Gilbertson "Ferraris are Meant to be Driven" award.

    Preparing for Future Fun Factor with a 2017-2018 Engine Out Major Service:

    I started this project mid-November. All fluids drained, headers, fuel distributors, alternators, bell housing, etc, removed. Lifted the engine onto a dollied hand truck using the Bend-Pak 4 post lift rear cross beam. The rear clamshell was suspended in the ceiling as done before. Photos of the timing belts and tensioners show no signs of delamination, teeth missing, wear, or damage. That's a good thing.

    Plans are to do the major as done previously, but add replacement axle boots, shift rod seals, and possibly a clutch. Once out, I'll measure the clutch components and go from there.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    crinoid, HansCH and truedriverscar like this.
  2. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,682
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Dave, this is a great story. I have a couple of questions for you. Do you still have the sodium valves in the car? Are you driving on the original wheels or modern
    upgrades? Did you upgrade the clutch and flywheel? MSD ? I assume not if you are winning platinums.
     
  3. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    George,
    Original valves are in the engine that I know of. No MSD ignition. Original Marelli unit with Rev limiter installed. Original 415mm wheels with replacement TRX tires installed.

    I've had discussions with a Ferrari Master Tech regarding the valves. Going by what he said, I'm not touching the valves until they need to be serviced. He really didn't see the problem on a flat 12. So I'm not going there. Before I started this service I did a compression check. All cylinders were within tolerance.

    Regarding original Marelli ignition: Makes a high pitch capacitor sound that the MSD units don't. Noted by Concours judges when the key is turned on. I haven't had any issues with it. I've heard these can fail due to voltage spikes. Maybe from jumping, or a battery that has been severely discharged.

    TRX Tires: Yes, 80's technology and there are better tires on the market for newer cars, but they do the job. To me they aren't a big deal and I'd rather have the original fitted to the car.
     
  4. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    #4 dwhite, Dec 10, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
    I split the block from the trans and replaced the o-rings on the oil pick-up tubes and the 3 o-rings between the block and trans. Also did the Newman diff carrier and the associated o-rings on the side covers and replaced the bearings, but that is a personal choice.

    I also replaced a bunch of gaskets, had injectors cleaned, and anything which looked like it could bite me.

    One thing I hate on the boxer is the oil pressure sender is located in a spot which I don't think can be changed with the engine in the car without a tremendous headache.

    I discussed changing the exhaust valves, but was talked out of it by an engine builder.

    Just curious, what is the reddish discharge on the water pump hoses.
     
  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,422
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    for reaching the oil pressure sensor to loosen and to tighten you may use a normal open end wrench, warm it and then bend it about 90°. so it is easy to reach the sensor and also you may use a plier to have more power

    this redish discharge is coming from the antifreeze in the cooling system
     
  6. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Joe, the oil pressure sender(see 7th pic from top), it's between oil filters. With the engine installed it butts right up against one of the coolant pipes. Easy to get a wrench on, but there just is no room to back it out.

    The temp sender which I just had to change, because it was leaking, is a bit of a pain to get to, but not an issue to change with engine in the car.
     
  7. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,422
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    sorry I was confused now with a testarossa

    but the waterpipe you can move a little and so you get the sensor out. never had a problem
     
  8. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    4,243
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    In the US, Some of us are having problems with the new MSD boxes. Seems the quality has gone downhill.
     
  9. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,027
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    I don't think that the red residue on the waterpump outlet hose on the bottom is from the antifreeze. From the way is it applied it looks like a gasket sealant that the owner put on the hose connections in order to get a better seal.
     
  10. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,422
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    I think you are right
    when I have seen this on my tablet it was too small and I have been busy to go on. so I just posted this with the antifreeze, because that is a common problem. but now I enlarge it on my big screen and see, that this is some sealant
     
  11. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    Correct. The red material is Permatex High Tack Sealant. It worked great for this application, and I will use it again for the new hose.
     
  12. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    4,243
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    The hoses are hard to get off without sealant! Some hoses can weep when motor is cold.
     
  13. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,682
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Thank you Dave!
     
  14. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    Did the preliminary valve clearance check today. Removed the ignition distributor and seal retainer

    Ferrari spec's the following valve clearance/tolerance:
    Intake: .008" - .010"
    Exhaust: .012" - .014"
    Using a feeler gage I measured:


    512BBI Ser 40565 All Readings- Cold Engine

    Cyl 1-6 (Right Bank)
    Intake Exhaust
    1 .010" .013"
    2 .009" .013"
    3 .010" .013"
    4 .010" .013"
    5 .010" .014"
    6 .010" .012"

    Cyl 7-12 (Left Bank)
    Intake Exhaust
    7 .009" .013"
    8 .010" .013"
    9 .009" .013"
    10 .009" .013"
    11 .010" .013"
    12 .009" .014"

    My thoughts are to leave the above valve clearances as is and move on. Next will be to reset the flywheel pointer to PM 1-6 and begin removing the timing belts, tensioner bearings and camshafts.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,422
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    when you adjust the timing usw a "degree wheel" for right work
    the valve clearance I also would not change
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 likes this.
  16. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    Removal and Inspection of the Clutch Assembly
    Both clutch discs and the central pressure plate shows near wear limit, so it looks like I will be sourcing a clutch.
    Thickness measurements taken are:

    Disk with spring hub: .266" (6.75mm) Original: 7.5-7.6 mm, 1 mm wear limit
    Disk with rigid hub: .258" (6.55 mm) Original: 7.2-7.3 mm, 1 mm wear limit
    Central pressure plate: .330" (8.35 mm) Original: 8.8 mm, 1 mm wear limit
    Combined total: 21.65 mm
    The combined total justifies replacement. Replacement will require adding the spacer washers (workshop manual states 22.0mm) back in position. I saved the originals from the last engine out. The flywheel is free of scoring but I will need to check flatness.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,065
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter H
    Thank you for the detailed write up on your endeavors and the good pictures. Please Keep them coming as I am mentally preparing for the same full service on my BBi.

    Best Peter
     
    Natkingcolebasket69 likes this.
  18. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
  19. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    Clutch Assembly Sourced
    Just ordered the Super Performance uprated clutch kit. See http://www.superformance.co.uk/flat12/clutch.html Its a Hill Engineering or an AP unit. According to Super Performance, the pressure plate is beefier than the OE unit. The kit includes the release (throw-out bearing). I'll source the SKF pilot bearing locally. I'm not looking for a street race, but more robust might be a good thing. The current stock unit carried the car for 24,000 KM. Not bad, but not that great either.
     
  20. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    To remove the Timing Case Assembly, the 20+ locknuts retaining the engine casing to the transaxle must be removed. Some nuts are hidden behind the flywheel so the flywheel is removed for access. One is even hidden above the left differential hub, which means the hub needs to be removed.

    Timing Case Removal/ T-Belt Drive Bearings & Seal Removal
    The crank balancer nut is removed, and a 2 jaw puller is used to remove the balancer. After marking the drive pulleys with the flywheel on PM 1/6. The ring nuts (spanners) are removed with a spanner socket I made using a 24mm , 1/2" drive socket. The nuts are tight, so after allot of grunting & swearing, I was able to break them free. The pulleys are removed and identified for reinstallation. All 8mm locknuts & washers are removed from the front of the cover and all 10mm locknuts & washers are removed from the engine/trans casing. Using a nylon strap under the heads, the lift cross beam came in handy to hoist the engine from the trans case. Just enough to remove the timing case assembly from the front of the engine. After replacement of the bearings, and oil seals in the timing case, the engine will need to be lifted again. Casing mating faces cleaned, and resealed with a high grade white silicone sealer for reassembly.

    Once off the engine, the timing case is brought to the bench. The woodruff keys are removed from the shafts along with the outer snap rings. After removing the outer bearing seals, a pencil torch is used to heat the inner race of the bearing applying just enough heat to tap the shaft out if the bearing's inner race with a copper mallet. The shaft, with it's attached gear is removed from the back of the casing. The gear & shaft must be individually identified so each can be reinstalled as it came out. The oil seals are easily removed using a flat blade screwdriver. The bearings with the spring washer can be removed through the front of the casing.

    The casing can now be cleaned and inspected pending replacement parts.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    To access the Removal of the Shift Rod and Seal from the Gearbox Housing, the side cover 8mm nuts are removed. There is one hidden behind the front engine mount bracket, so that requires removal as well. Like the engine/trans. housing, there is no paper gasket used by the factory for the mating surfaces. A white silicone sealant is used instead.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Took me a good hr being careful to remove all that sealant. How are the 3 o rings on the oil pick-up tubes. Mine were petrified as were the large o rings on the diff side covers and the other 3 between the trans and block.

    This car is getting a 30K service for sure, maybe 40K and I don't mean mileage. Great work. Newman got me through a few sleepless nights, when I had my car apart.

    I spoke with the previous owner of your car a few days ago. We've had the pleasure of a drive together.
     
  23. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    All the O-rings including the oil pickup tubes were replaced the last engine out maintenance 10 years ago.. They are still pliable, but are all being replaced for this service as well.

    Richard is a great guy! If you bump into him again, say hello to him for me.
     
  24. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    4,243
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Similar to my(TR gearbox rebuild) I did this summer. I posted it. Newman also was very helpful on my rebuild. He recommends Ford"s grey sealant or the (right stuff) to reseal gearbox and oil pan. I used the Ford sealant and have no oil leaks! My post shows some tools I made for my rebuild. You will need a plate to seat the 3 springs on the trans cover to adjust linkage. Also the pin I made that locates the shift linkage. This is the tool that starts the linkage adjustment. Everything is adjusted after the set up pin is used.
     
  25. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    725
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    Is this the post you are speaking of? https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/tr-transaxle-rebuild.564813/#post-145734066
    If not, can you point me in the correct direction? I'm not going any deeper than replacing the shift rod seal on this project. I plan to place index marks on the shift shaft position prior to removal for alignment on assembly. The gearbox shifted fine so I'm not clear why further linkage adjustment would be necessary.

    The white RTV Silicone Sealant that I will be using was recommended by our local Ferrari dealership. It's available from my local WW Grainger branch, and is what I used for this service 10 years ago. No leaks as well. The shift rod seal wept a drop or two during shut down starting a year or two ago. But that's about it.
     

Share This Page