512BB carbs + ethanol = any problems?

I am starting to look for a 512BB or possibly a BBi and am wondering if the current formulation of our gasoline in the US is causing any problems with the Webers in the BB? Ethanol in gasoline congeals into a green jello like slimey substance if left to sit for prolonged periods, clogging idle circuits and jets. This has caused problems in some of my other carburated engines (cars, motorcycles, boat, powerwasher etc...) I did a search and didn't see a single reference to ethanol problems with 512BB's. The Webers on a BB look like they barely have float bowls anyways, so maybe it's not as much of a problem? I think I really would prefer a BB but would like to hear from other owners before I take the plunge.

Thanks in advance

John B

 

Just use non-ethanol gas. That's what I do in my BB512i and all my motorcycles. There are several phone apps out there that will help you locate a non-ethanol gas station in your area. I use http://pure-gas.org/

 

We have had ethanol gas in Illinois for almost 30 years now. I have never had any problems related to the fuel in my 365 Boxer nor any other colllector cars. However, there are over 100 different blends used throughout the United States and there are summer and winter blends. You should speak to people with colllector cars who live in your area.

 

Good day John,

I have a BB and experience with Ethanol based fuel as well as the current fuel formulations. Firstly, the Ethanol (in our fuel blends anyway) will leave a greenish sludge if fuel is left to evaporate. Up here in Western Canada we have a long Winter season and so the car can sit for some time... 5-6 months (worst case)... and so if the car is not started periodically the fuel will evaporate. If this does happen all that is needed is for the carbs to be taken off (maybe 30 minutes or so) taken apart and cleaned (a few hours). Usually I do this anyway at the start of the season, as I find it somewhat therapeutic. The fuel evaporation issue has only happened to me twice. In both cases the Winters were exceptionally cold (-40C+ outside... -54C with a windchill) and so I felt it best not to start the car because of these extreme temps. In most cases starting the car once a month prevented the fuel evaporation issue. Lastly, as a FYI.. I never found the green sludge anywhere else in my fuel system except for areas where the fuel was allowed to evaporate.

As for the fuel formulations in general...About 3 years ago I noticed some strange stumbling/hestitation issues (upon transition from one carb circuit to another) that I never had before. After exploring all the usual suspects it was made clear to me that the fuel formulations have changed and so the jetting, etc of the carb could be the culprit. After analyzing my setup, studying the Weber manuals, and talking to gurus like Paul, David, etc I changed my jetting, etc and the car ran better than ever.

Personally, I would not be too concerned about the fuel formulations, etc on a BB. If you periodically start/drive the car all will be fine. My other recommendation is that you secure access to a competent BB carb guru... I cannot stress this enough, as carb expertise cannot be understated, as this will ensure you have a great running BB and probably save you a lot of $$$ over time. There are a number of misconceptions about BBs and how their carbs are "finicky" or need constant tweaking, etc... This is simply not true. Once the BB carbs are properly set up they rarely need fiddling... except, of course, if you like to "play" like me ... or if there are significant fuel formulation changes.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Its a crap shoot whats better suited, injected or carbs? Different problems for each I think so its a matter of which headache you prefer. Are the internal components of the bosch CIS fuel distributors compatible with the alcohol? Im going EFI on my BBi not for that reason but in the search for max power but the alcohol damaging the CIS distributor components is on a concern that only time will tell. Will the alcohol in carbed cars (non-pressurized fuel systems) boil and cause vapour lock problems? I think so. Jetting changes are needed for sure for proper performance but wont help vapour lock. Accel pump diaphragms on carbs compatible? May just come down to more frequent rebuilding of the the fuel systems, CIS will be more costly but starts, runs and drives with zero drama (when its setup right but thats another story!)

 

I had my BB for 7 years now, and I've never had any problem with the carbs, on Calif gas. I don't know how much ethanol is in the gas, but it's listed on the pump as an additive.
Also, I commonly let my car sit for 6 weeks at a time when I out of town at work, with no problems.

If at some point you decide you'd like a BB, shoot me a message.

John

 

I haven't had any problems with it in my BB, or my other carb Ferrari. However, I try to drive my cars at least once a month, even in the winter.

 

I think it is a great testament that John is going to get a boxer.

John has experience with some very, very serious machines and a boxer is on his list of cool!!!!

Btw, I saw your old m8 in Coronado two years ago. I asked if the car had the big motor? The crew laughed and said no. They said that motor made over 1000 hp!!! That was a cool m8 !!!!

Good luck finding a great boxer John!!!

PCB

 

Hi Pete,
Yeah, I still have that engine, we turn it over every two weeks. It's kind of like a solution looking for a problem...

Regarding BB's and ethanol, the little I know about BB's and BBi's, combined with that which I do know about myself steers me towards a BB. Like Sam above, I'd be willing to and probably even enjoy cleaning the carbs annually if need be.

 

I used to make the effort to buy 100% gas but it has gotten much harder to find.
The website that Parker points to sadly is not kept up to date. So stations that once had ethanol free gas may no long carry it. Also hard to find premium grade ethanol free fuel.

So i have been using ethanol laced fuel and seem to not have had problems.

The Alfa guys have studied their Weber carbs and feel that the ethanol is not good for the rubber parts. I have had a leak but impossible to say if the ethanol was a contributor.
Fortunately the carbs are cheap and easy to reseal yourself.

 

I think it depends on the conditions of your hoses if they are not in the greatest shape the ethanol can cause issues from sitting i believe i had to replace hoses on the fuel lines on the carbs a while back they were they starting to disintegrate. Once replaced with new hose i used gates type not the OE cloth covered which is harder to spot leaks all is good with them


If you think the car will sit for a extended period i would throw some race gas in jt no ethanol there

 

Two summers ago, my BBi had a basically incurable left/right mixture balance. It would come and go, even swapping sides for over-rich/over-lean.

Ferrari of Atlanta determined I had significant gunk in the filters, then the lines, and of course some got into the injectors.

The photos they sent (in their usual thorough way) showed 'particalized' rubber throughout the system. Out came the tanks, lines, pumps, distributors, the works. Ended up with a full fuel system rebuild.

This could've been merely age, but it seemed to FoA that ethanol has advanced the aging process. They did not used to see these problems with the commonality they see it today.

Different topic: Though well-intentioned, Ethanol is one of the biggest and most counter-productive scams ever bestowed. In total cost and obvious detriment, perhaps the biggest.

End result and recommendations are a surgically clean fuel system, double filtration, regular 'Stabil' (or non-ethanol fuels) and keeping the car moving more than I do. Glad to follow that last instruction! Great input on the non-Ethanol stations with the phone-app from Franklin! I'll use that.

In their opinion, the injected cars handle fuel quality variations better overall, yet if they do get contaminated, the diagnosis/repair can be more costly.

 

Certainly, up here in Canada, it's pretty easy to find ethanol-free gas without an app -- the premium grade at Shell and Esso stations fits the bill. There are others too of course, but Shell and Esso are pretty easy to find.