512BB or 550?

This is a bit of an odd question as the two cars have nothing much in common other than being Ferrari 12 cylinder manual gearboxes... but it is a question I am faced with right now! I test drove both this weekend. The 512BB did something to me that no car has done before. Perhaps it was because it was an iconic car when I was a child... perhaps it's those yellow headlights... perhaps that's what old cars to do you... who knows? The 550 was very special. Though you still see a number of them, I could feel that I was driving somewhat of a special car, the last of the manuals. Its body shape is very much a classic, and I am guessing I wont lose much money on it. Assuming the cars are in similar very good condition, what do F-Chatters think? I do live in a hot and humid climate (the 512BB was recently imported from a colder climate, but the 550 has lived here since birth), I am not a mechanic expert and don't really have access to one (other than the official Ferrari dealership and garage), and dont want to the car to cost me a brick in maintenance etc. Decisions, decisions...

 

Owned both at the same time, but have since sold the street BB. A wonderfully classic car, but the technology dated to the early '70s. So, the steering and braking inputs require significant effort. Also, the broad windscreen will allow the car (and passengers) to warm up quickly, and the pathetic Borletti A/C won't do much. Not to mention that the radiator lines run down the side of the passenger compartment, warming the car even further. That said, I have always LOVED the lines of the BB. A classic GT car, it's great in a straight line and can eat up the kilometers on the highway, but toodling around town became tedious.

The 550 is much more competent, of course. And, designed to be far more usable than the BB. It's faster, more comfortable and easier to drive. You can actually use it around town and in traffic. I don't care for the styling as much as the BBs, but one can't have everything.

Pricing? I think the BBs are fairly priced, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the 550s having bottomed (or closing in on a bottom). However, it's impossible to say where prices will go as they're driven by external factors, too. There were a limited number of BBs built, and the most desirable version (365 v. 512 and BB v. BBi) can be debated. But, the 550s are a relatively HUGE production run. So, they simply won't hold up in value over time as well.

So, what does it all mean? It depends on what's most important to you. Do you want something that's a classic, from the Enzo-era that requires more maintenance and you must live with more inconveniences? Or, would you prefer something that's more drivable and usable, yet lacks the purer history of the marque? Nothing wrong with either, but you should be honest about your decision, or you may not be happy with your choice.

CW

 

I would not trade my BB512i for a 550 under any circumstances. As an occasional use toy, few classic Ferrari's compare to the style and performance and driving experience offered by a Boxer. The Boxer is also much less expensive to own and maintain than a 550. While a 550 clearly makes for a more comfortable and competent daily driver, it will cost big bucks per mile in service, repairs and depreciation to use in that manner. A Boxer would not make a good daily driver under any circumstances IMHO.

 

I owned a BB for 15 years. I always used to tell others that the A/C worked great in the winter and the heater in the summer .....you will seriously wilt in hot humid climates with the Boxer. The clutch is heavy so in traffic your leg can get weary. Visibility is not bad, but it is a mid-engine car. I would not classify it as a practical car.

I have also owned a 550, 575 and now an SA. Needless to say I like Maranellos. If you are looking for some comfort and fun it's pretty hard to top the 550. Great power, excellent handling and the sounds and pull of a big front engine V-12. It has a fairly decent A/C system to keep you cool. And with power steering driving around in traffic is no problem.

If exclusivity is the goal then the Boxer has it. But if you want a car to drive anywhere the 550 is the ticket.

 

http://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2168

I wrote a sort of Blog thing about my 550 ownership experience at the address above. I now have (inter alia) a 1989 AM Vantage (so a vaguely comparable age of car in 1970s technology gap terms to a late 512BB) and (having driven a couple of 365bb/512bb's) it's like comparing owning a pair of shoes and a pair of skis: Both go on your feet and enable travel, but they are in no way inter-changeable: Whilst one method is tremendous fun on a snowy mountain, I wouldn't commute by train in skis, for example.

 

The two cars are very different, as I'm sure you understand. I own a 512BB, and I have owned a 456 and presently own a 612, so I have some familiarity with the topic.

The 512BB is a wonderful, classic, driving experience. For a car to pull out on the weekend and have some fun with, it's hard to beat. From a practical standpoint, it's pretty much useless. It has no trunk (unless you remove the spare tire, in which case it's okay), not that much room in the cabin, minimal air conditioning (yet with the huge windshield, I find I run the A/C most of the time, even when it's fairly cold out), a heavy clutch and steering at low speeds, etc. It's a pain in the city.

The 550, on the other hand, is a fun weekend car and also a car you can drive every day. The A/C works, you can see out of it, it's reasonable to drive in traffic, it has a trunk and reasonable interior room, etc.

My 512BB has been quite trouble-free. It is expensive to maintain with engine out belt changes every 5 years, but on the whole it's probably no more expensive to maintain than a 550, and might even be cheaper. Boxers do not seem to take well to sitting for long periods, so you might keep that in mind.

The objective answer is that the 550 is better in almost every way. However, the objective answer probably isn't what you are looking for. If you love the look and feel of the Boxer and are interested in using it as a weekend car, I'd say go for it. If you want a car you can use all the time, get the 550.

The best answer is probably to get both, as they make a great combination!

 

take the discussion a "little deeper"--this is my next purchase. I have reviewed all applicable threads--thoughts? Thx.

 

bb carby v daytona?
Still very different cars in how they drive and feel, aside from the obvious mid/front technical issue.

Similar in the lack of contemporary refinement, but the BB was the next generation of Ferrari's GT. Haven't driven a Daytona in over 20 years, but the experience is still pretty clear.

Depends upon how "vintage" you wish to go. Can't really go wrong with either.

 

Very different cars. That one really depends on what you want, and which one moves you.

 

Since the issue of the Boxer windscreen came up, I thought I would mention my solution which has proved to be very satisfying:
\http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291944&referrerid=23299

 

Regarding the Boxer vs 550...Though I have never driven either (much to my chagrin) I can tell you that you will likely find the Boxer (especially the carbed variant) to be much more raw than the 550. Though the progression of Ferrari cars throughout the years has led to greater performance and practicality, I have heard that some of the cars have become too refined and almost...well...a bit sterile. I can tell you that there is a big difference in this aspect pursuant to the tow models that I own: 1987 328 GTS, and a 1977 dry sump Euro 308 GTB. The 328 is, indeed, more refined, though certainly still raw by today's standards, but the 308 is just a snotty, uncompromising, snarling little devil and, accordingly, at least for me, much more fun to drive.

So...as some here have intimated, decide how you plan to use the car and what kind of experience you're after. For me, the closer to Ferrari's racing heritage I can get in a street car, the happier I'm going to be. But I never intended to have, nor will I ever have, a Ferrari as a daily driver.

 

as owner of two boxers and a 550 I certainly don't agree with that statement. Depreciation has been significant over the four years that I've owned my 550 but it has been reliable and much cheaper to run than the Boxer. Major service costs about half of one for the Boxer.

Someone said you should drive them and he's right. There's a reason I own these models (albeit not the 512 but 365) - they couldn't be more different as a driving experience. Best of luck in your search, both are great cars.

 

My BB512i has been one of the least expensive Ferrari's I have ever owned. An ~ $6500 major services every ten years or so, a couple of A/C issues-$1000, rebuilt the alternators-$500, new TRXs-$1200, an oil/filter change twice a year-$100, and a new Bell exhaust-$2000...that's about it. A friend of mine bought a 550 a few years back that came with over $40k in receipts...

 

Well put.

I wonder if 550 costs won't escalate as the cars age. It can be hard to compare a 30-year old car to a 10-year old car in terms of neediness.

 

Franklin- You need to ask a pro like Brian Crall which is more expensive to maintain, a Boxer or a Maranello. The answer will be the Boxer is much more expensive to maintain and has a much greater chance of having a huge bill come due. And no, I do not want to hear about one idiot 550 owner who gave a dealership a blank check for maintenence on his car.

How you equate a car with no lifters to adjust, no engine removal requirement, etc, etc with being more expensive to maintain is beyond me.

To the OP, everyone here is pretty much spot on. The 550 is a better car, but not necessarily a better Ferrari. There were 1936 512 BB/BBi cars built and 5147 550/575M cars built so the Boxer is way rarer and an Enzo era car. Just make sure there is no rust. Not much of a problem on the aluminum bodied Maranello.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Maybe somewhat but the Boxer has been expensive compared to anything else from day one. Just compare a 30 YO 308 with a Boxer. And no matter how old the 550 gets, you don't a new clutch every 20k kms or lift the engine for a major. Oh, and a major every 10 years? Well then you don't do a lot of mileage. It's also the first time I hear of a 550 with 40k of receipts. Personally I've spent 8k in 20k miles, a major of 4k and a failed clutch bearing of 3, and a failed computer of 1.5. The service records before I got the car show the same pattern. Finally a Boxer engine generally has a rebuild before 100,000kms. Do you reckon you'd need to do the same for a 550 engine? And as Terry says, ask a specialist who sees more than 1 car. Your experienced hardly seem typical.

Onno

 

Point taken, the Boxer is an expensive beast, much more so than its sister 308.

My thought was that as electronics begin to age and fail the parts prices may make the 550/575 more expensive to own. I.e., there are parts in a 550 (airbags, sensors, etc.) that don't appear in the Boxer.

As one example, I remember replacing a $1000 instrument cluster in my old '98 Merc SLK, and can't imagine what Ferrari would charge when a 550 cluster dies. In a Boxer, you would probably just get the gauge rebuilt.

But, to the OP's point, a Boxer will almost certainly "cost a brick in maintenance", whereas the 550 is more of a wildcard as it ages.

 

Jon- On the 550, the ECUs have proven to be very reliable and owners have developed solutions for the few problem areas, like the shock absorber actuators. Late model instrument clusters are reparable by FAI in California, just like Boxer instruments are reparable by MoMa in NM and similar services. The 550 has no major weaknesses in the engine or transaxle and the major parts have been pretty much bullet-proof. I know there is at least one welded piece in the Boxer/early TR transaxle which has caused major problems and needs to be watched. There is a solution, but it is costly.

So I think trying to separate them by maintenance issues is probably pretty much a waste of time. There is 20 years between the two, and cars have become more reliable in that timeframe. Using a BB for a DD is probably not a great idea. With a 550, it is done all the time.

This is like the question people always ask about buying a Porsche or a Ferrari where the answer is that if you had to ask the question, you should probably buy the Porsche. If you have to ask the question here, the answer is probably buy the newer car.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I can only go by personal experience as you have to take what others say with a grain of salt. Out of the 328GTS, 400GT, TR, 330GTC, 348 Spider and BB512i, my Boxer has been less expensive to maintain and/or repair. Maybe I have been lucky. I drive it ~2500klms per year and maintain it as needed. I do my own oil/filter changes and other minor task I can do on my home lift. I do suspect that if I used my BB512i as a daily driver of 20k miles per year that it would be much more expensive. The friend who bought the 550 has been a multiple Ferrari owner for over 30 years. The guy he bought it from had it serviced by FoA which also services my BB512i. Most of the $40k in bills he showed me were for maintenance, not repairs.

 

Franklin- I have no idea how you spend $40K on maintenance on a Maranello. Even if you stick to the three year belt changes, which you do not, costs for an annual on a 550 are around $1000 and the belt change ranges from $1500-3500, depending on what is done.

We have an entire forum of Maranello owners who disagree with you. Plus the pros disagree with you. If you are going 10 years between belt changes you are braver than I am. That counts as deferred maintenance to me.

Taz
Terry phillips