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512TR lights not working

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by 512TRTX, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. 512TRTX

    512TRTX Karting

    Jul 22, 2016
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    I have a euro spec 1992 512TR. I am having some issues with the rear lights not coming on with this headlights. I am also having issues with instrument lights not come on when I turn my headlights on. I have moved the brightness dial back and forth numerous times and nothing. Then after awhile they will start working. I have checked fuses and they look ok.
     
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  3. Qavion

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  4. Qavion

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    I'm not sure which steering column switches are which (in block 04000). It may take a while to figure out.
     
  5. Qavion

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  7. Qavion

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    Sorry, I see I missed a connection in the relay panel. The diagram won't make sense without this connection. Uploading some new diagrams shortly...
     
  8. Qavion

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  9. Qavion

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    Do your sidelights (front and rear), number plate lights and instrument lights come on when you put your sidelights on? Do the rear and instrument lights only fail when you go to low beam headlights?
     
  10. Qavion

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    #9 Qavion, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
    By the way, the box with the "X" in it in the instrument binnacle between the Tachometer and the ABS light is the dimmer potentiometer. White wire in (12 volts), yellow wire out (variable volts). Power comes from fuse 13. See the headlights, fog and brake light diagram.
     
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  12. 512TRTX

    512TRTX Karting

    Jul 22, 2016
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    I don’t have side marker lights on my 512TR. The Euro ones did not come with them like the US versions.
     
  13. Qavion

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    All of the tail light wiring (except for reverse) seems to go through plug "D" on the relay panel.

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    Might be a good idea to check the security of the plug.

    When you say your instrument lights are not coming on, do you mean background lighting (dimmable) and warning lights?

    I haven't been able to make any sense of the wiring diagram column switch graphics. I don't know what the switches represent. I tried labelling the stalk switch contacts, but the combinations didn't work. e.g. :

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    With ignition in RUN...
    The green (V) wire activates relay "O" (Exterior Lights) and puts an earth on pin 30 of relay "C" (Headlight lifting with low beam control) "arming" the relay for operation. Relay "O" puts on the instrument lights, side lights and number plate lights.
    The light blue/yellow (AG) wire activates relay C (Headlight lifting with low beam control) emergising relay D (Headlight lifting)
    The yellow/red (GR) wire activates relay "N" (Low beam light control) and relay "P" (Daylight flashing disable relay).
    The red (R) wire activates relay "M" (High beam light control).
    The light blue/black (AN) wire activates the daylight flashers.

    What is the relationship between the first switch (single contact) and the second switch (triple contact)?

    We may need Steve M's expertise with this one.
     
  14. Qavion

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    Understood. The Euro car, I assume, has turn side repeaters.
     
  15. Steve Magnusson

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    #13 Steve Magnusson, Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
    That's a terrible symbol representation of the 512TR headlight switch's physical operation itself (as the stalk knob has three positions and the stalk lever two positions; whereas, that symbol looks more like the earlier model's headlight switch where the stalk knob has two positions and the stalk lever three positions). My guess would be that:

    1. Rotating the stalk knob to the first (1) position just connects the V wire to the N wire in the first switch symbol (turns on the parking lights, but keeps the headlight pods down)

    2. Rotating the stalk knob to the second (2) position keeps the V wire connected to the N wire in the first switch symbol, but also connects the (LO) GR wire of the second switch symbol to the N wire (parking lights on, headlight pods up, low beams on).

    3. Then moving the stalk lever down connects the (HI) R wire of the second switch symbol to the N wire while the V wire stays connected to the N wire in the first switch symbol (parking lights on, headlight pods up, high beams on).

    See if that operation makes sense with what's on the 512TR schematic (as I'm not going to do that as I like to avoid pain ;)). Interestingly, on the TR schematic, the headlight switch symbol also isn't great for describing the different physical actions (it's all mushed together into a single switch symbol), but it's better than those 512TR headlight switch symbols.
     
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  16. 512TRTX

    512TRTX Karting

    Jul 22, 2016
    85
    Houston
    The lights that illuminate the Tach and Speedo along with oil temp, fuel and clock are not coming on. The warning lights and headlight, high beam all come on
     
  17. Steve Magnusson

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    For an easy test, try replacing the ...006 relay O (might have a "K" written on the outer case) with one of the ...113 relays from another function (for example, the AC condensor fan). Using a ...113 relay in the relay O position will muck up the pushbutton parking light function -- but if your rear running lights and dash lights work more reliably when you turn on the headlights = sign that you need a new ...006 relay in the relay O position.
     
  18. Qavion

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    I understand your pain. I spent a hour or two trying to figure things out without success. Since I haven't worked on the TR's I appreciate the explanation of the stalk. Just wondering how the daylight flashers are activated (pulling back on the stalk?)

    I've just found one of Guido's excellent relay panel circuit board pinout diagrams, so no doubt I'll be making a few alterations to relay pin numbering.

    Here's the TR wiring for comparison.

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    I'll try to incorporate it into the 512 diagram. Failing that, I'll just add your description to the diagram! :D
     
  19. Qavion

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    I had to put this in the "too hard basket", and used your description. I've renamed some of the contacts for additional clarity.

    https://www.dropbox.com/t/bQBhX1re6TWgJn2b

    Link expires in 6 days. Other link (in previous post) removed.

    It's important to note that some USA and Euro Ferrari models do have lighting differences (e.g. some models turn off the low beam headlights when the high beams are on).
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

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    Yes, pulling back on the stalk lever on both the TR and 512TR. There's no tactile feedback for when the flashing switch closes (i.e., when the BR wire is connected to the AN wire) -- it's just a momentary contact switch, and the stalk lever is spring-loaded to move back forward when released.
     
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  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Put together a description of how the connections inside the TR headlight switch schematic symbol work for each of the TR headlight switches (knob and lever) physical positions. They tried to have a sort of logical symbol where the motion of a single pole element could represent the logical progression of how the physical actions usually occur, but they mangled it a little and left a circle of the low beam line (as both the low beam headlights and high beam headlights are "on" in the high beam switch position) -- rather than add a circle to the symbol, I just added another pole element to show that the low beams are also "on" when the high beams are "on" (more readable pdf file also attached):
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    Attached Files:

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  22. Qavion

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    Excellent. Thanks.

    That last one looks quite bizarre.
     
  23. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Yes, there should've been another small circle on the pin 12 GR wire line where the wiper crosses over it to show that it is also connected to the pin 10 R wire when the lever is down in the high beam position (I did confirm on my TR that the high beam bulbs and low beam bulbs are both "on" when the lever is down in the high beam position). I'll leave doing something similar for the 512TR headlight switch mess to you ;).
     
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  24. theunissenguido

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