512TR starter problem(s)

Hi, Tr and Testa friends,
I make new fuseboxes for the older model Testa and TR, see picture.
I'm looking now to make that new model fusebox (like Melvok has) and for that, I'm trying to find a diagram for that newer fusebox. Someone can help me out with this ?
A complet diagram will do it also.
You can PM me or email [email protected]
Greetings, Guido
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The 512TR schematic is in the 512TR WSM (Vol II) that you can download from All Ferraris

(be prepared to wish someone would come kill you -- its goofy "modernized' format is that horrible to use )

 

Received several usable diagrams. I just have to find out how 30, 85, 86, 87 a and b from every relay, are connected at the drawings.
Someone has this information ?
ex : relay A : what number is connected to fuse 2 and other number on relay A ;
what number is connected to connector A-8 ;
what number is connected to connector G-5 ;
for relay D : what number is connected to relay C, N and P and connector E-9.... ;
what number is connected to relay C ;
what number goes to connector C-4 ;
what number goes to connector C-3 ;
what number goes to connector G-4 , fuse 2 and relays E, A and F.
for relay V : what number goes to connector F-3 ;
what number goes to connector D-3 ;
what number goes to connector D-4 ;
what number goes to fuse 8 and relay I.
for relay O : what number goes to relay C and connector J-11 ;
what number goes to relay M, N, P, C, D,S and connector E-9, connector I-2...;
what number goes to fuses 13/14 ;
what number goes to connector J-8 and fuse 15 ;
what number goes to + and connector G-11 and relays M, N .

Does are the most important relays connections. All the others I'll find out once I have those marked above.

Guido
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guido,
I would suggest that you take an ohmmeter and meassure what is going where, but take out then all relais
normaly 30 on a relais is input plus for this what you want to give power on after the relais
87, 87a, 87a and 87a ( so doubble a ) has power when the relais is switched on
87b has power when the relais is switched off
85 and 86 is for saying the relais to switch on or off
if you have a relais with 87 a and 87 b then this relais is closed when it is not switched on between 30 and 87 b, when switched on then there is connection between 30 and 87 a
the relais with 2 times 87 a is the same as if you take 2 single relais with only 87

fuse 2 is 87 or 30
A8 is 87
A5 is 85 or 86
relais D 85 or 86

so you may start checking and meassuring, it is no magic

 

The problem is : I dont have that new fusebox in my possesion. Just the diagrams that Mel send me. To discover where the connections are at those relays this fusebox has to be examened to make no mistakes, I agree. But who is going to take the time to do this ?
Maybe I whas so Lucky someone did this already.
Guido

 

so you have no fusebox?
want to built then your own by yourself?
or what?
if you change 85 or 86 it does not matter.
important is the relais with 30, 87 and 87a. sometimes the 12 V plus goes in to 87a and when switched on it get contact to 30. and on 87 there is ground. this F made for the 87 TR for the fuel pumps.
if you have only a relais with 30 and 87 it also does not matter what goes where.

you may download the TR diagram 459/86, there you see the single numbers of the relais

someone in french already did this once. he made a fusebox out of wood. but I can not find just now here in the forum. you may look a little. there are also some pictures of his work.

 

The way I get my info is like this....
1) download the workshop manual
2) find the diagram you want (which I can NOT read on my computer...because it's too small to see anything)
3) print it out (usually 4 pages print out that I then tape together)
4) then take a pic with my phone to post here!

I really don't know the answer to what relay does what until I go through the above process.

Lastly, if I am really lucky....Steve Magnesson will chime in.....to make sure I understand things correctly. (This is what I call the "magic magnesson" step)

 

sure, steve is the electric guru. he also helps me already, and if it was only that F forgot something is the diagram

but I think he also has to look in to the wiring diagram to follow the single wires. and this everybody can do by himself. and when then are special questions I´m sure the one or the other will sit down, study the diagram or remember from own experience and will post then here.

you know what thread this was mel? a link would help

 

The information is really already all there in the relay symbols and the (quirky and confusing) ISO conventions in place at that time (which is why F didn't print the Bosch terminal numbers on the schematic -- they were trying to be good little "euro-world" citizens and adhere to the prevailing ISO conventions):

Correct - there is no polarity requirement for the coil inside the relay so just make one side of the coil 85 and the other side 86.

The switch terminal with the pivot point(s) for the moving switch "leg(s)" is terminal 30.

All of the relays are shown unenergized:

1. on those relays with a single moving leg and two output terminals (...101 type), the leg is shown connected to the 87a terminal on the schematic and the other (open) terminal is 87.

2. on those relays with a singe moving leg and one output terminal (...113 type), the output terminal is 87.

3. on those relays with two moving legs connected to terminal 30 and two output terminals (...006 type), the two output terminals are equivalent -- so just (randomly) pick one to be 87 and the other one to be 87b.

Please send my 5% royalty check of the profits to my Paypal address, and your complaint letters to the ISO

PS I'd also like to stick-up a little for the original F Designers -- who had to keep overall weight in mind -- a discrete wire + spade terminal design (ala 308/328) will weigh a lot more. Is better reliabilty (if made well - there's a lot of manual fabrication involved) worth some extra weight? Maybe -- but better reliability with less, or near equal, weight would be the Holy Grail of solutions...

 

Offer you 10 % discount on a fusebox !
The weight isnt a problem...its only 0.380 kg more then OEM.
Thinking a full fuel tank against an empty is more then 90 kg difference !

Other point : the 3 connectors on the left side...diagram showes them vertical and in reality they are horizontal.
Logical the number 1 should start at the left side, like the connectors below. And connector A the upper one, B middle and C lower one. Can someone confirm this ?
Guido
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You can -- by matching the wire colors given on the schematic to the wire colors/locations shown in the photo. Should let you figure out who is A, B, C and where pin 1 is for each (even if you can't see every wire in the photo).

 

Conclusion whas like expected :
A upper and number 1 left. Just wanted confirmation. Double check is my motto !

Even when the diagram is complet and correct, I need an Original OEM (new model) outside cover board or the motherboard itself to mesure the places for the male connectors where the wires are connected. This is a tenht of a millimeter job.
Someone has lying one around and can borrow me this for some days ? Would help me a lot to start building this board.

Reliability of my fuseboxes ; examples of commentarys :
Afterburner (mondial, Hong-Kong) :
Hi Guido
Everything electrically perfect
The one thing that you could think of in the light of changing road rules is the integration of daylight driving lights. Since fuse holder number 1 is empty, is might be used for a daylight driving light output
Cheers,Urs
Nicolas (TR, France) :
Tout fonctionne parfaitement, je me suis un peu embêté avec les connecteurs, après plusieurs essais, j'ai finalement branché fil après fil au niveau des connecteurs.
Pour que ce soit plus "lisible" chaque fil a recu une gaine thermo numéroté avec un code couleur par connecteur. Nicolas.
Stekkefun4 (mondial, Belgium)
Guido has made fusebox replacements that are about 100% identical to the original ones, very impressive to see how it's made and many hours of effort he has put into each board!
Price is very affordable in comparison with original ones.Stefan

Ok, its maybe not the Holy Grail of solutions, but its helping those who are in the need for a replacement. And I'm willing to help...
Guido

 

Wanted a used fusebox new model 512 TR itself or the cover for this fusebox. On the picture the fusebox itself on the left or its cover on the right. One of the 2 will do.
It may be a demolition box that is not repairable, or someone that has lying one around and can mis his box for a few days. Will pay for shipping and other expenses.

Or someone can give me the dimensions for all male connectors where the wires are connected. See left side of Mel's picture. Also the dimensions of the connectors itself, its height, width and thickness.

Contact [email protected] or PM me.
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So...my friend was having a no start issue with his 512tr. We would turn the key and get a "click" but the starter didn't go.

There is a lot of discussion on this board about the fuse box and and various connectors BUT I have never read anyone talk about the push together connector at the rear of the motor.

Since mine was on the lift today, I decided to look for mine. I was amazed that there is a very simple disconnect on the back of the motor. It is to the drivers side above the oil filter. It simply pulls out.

Since this is such a high current(Amp) circuit, I am amazed they used this. And I can't believe it is not mentioned here.

Here is a pic of mine. You can see mild corrosion. His had the same. After cleaning, his no start went away. This is for a 512tr. I do not know what the Testarossa uses.

 

Here is the pic
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Here is the cleaned connection.

One side is cooper. I guess the dissimilar metals corrode over time.
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Thanks for posting Mel.

Mine is like diagram number 2.

The specific connection is at #32. My thoughts are that Ferrari realized the problem and did an update.

As you can see in Diagram #3, They used a bolted down connection at #28

 

Bump...

 

All current TO and FROM your battery needs to go through the #32 connector

 

Hi all,

I'm reading this thread and am a little confused. Some of you know that I am an idiot when my head is under the hood so...Can someone tell me if there is a picture lying around here showing which connector is the I, the F, the J, the W and whatever other one I'm missing?

I just want to probe at the right place since I have an intermitent starter problem, hot or cold like a lot of you guys.

Thanks for helping the noob.