512TR window regulator control | FerrariChat

512TR window regulator control

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by JIMBO, Mar 4, 2016.

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  1. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3
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    My driver's side 1994 512TR window ceased working. The passenger side works fine. The switch is good, I can hear the relay clicking in the window regulator control unit behind the fuse box, and I swapped the switch to a brand new unit without change. I pulled the door panel off and checked voltage to the motor. When the switch is depressed either up or down, the window motor makes a "clunk" noise and voltage spikes momentarily to 6.8 volts and then is gone.
    Nothing moves.
    Questions:
    1. Is the window regulator control unit simply a relay box with separate relays for each side
    2. Is there a power window relay on the fuse board that may be bad?
    3. Has anyone ever taken the window regulator control unit apart? Can it be repaired?
    4. The heavy black plastic water shield under the door panel crumbled when I tried to remove it (21 years in the Florida heat will cook most things). Can I simply replace it with heavy clear plastic sheeting, or is there something better (it resembles tar paper).

    I assume the door switch controls a relay in the window regulator control unit that then sends current to the window motor, or is there a more circuitous and typical Ferrari route?
    Thanks.
     
  2. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

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    The voltage spiking and a clunking noise suggests something preventing/blocking/frozen. Its like the motor is trying to what is commanded but is prevented by a physical force. On the TR side, we suffer from the grease drying out on the motor and get slow windows.
     
  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    to the motor there has to go 12 V, not only 6.8
    so check the + voltage and the minus voltage
    go with the testmeter directly to battery + and then to minus from the wires at the motor. same you may do with minus at battery at plus at the motor. so you see if you have a plus or a minus problem
    good luck
     
  4. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #4 Melvok, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
    Open up the door first .... most of the time it is still hardened grease in the switch. Don't buy a new one for $ 600. It's a Fiat part, like the mirror swith ...

    I once did a thread about it .... I also still have one lhs and rhs electr 512TR window system for sale ...
     
  5. Ferrari Testarossa

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    #5 Ferrari Testarossa, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
    Both of my TR window motors were rusted and frozen. I took them apart, cleaned them, and oiled the bearings. You can get carried away and take it to someone willing to do a bearing, brush, and shaft rebuild but then you're likely paying a standard fee X the ubiquitous Ferrari tax! (Standard fee multiplied by a factor of 11.25) It's a very easy job. The only "slightly tricky part" is re-assembly while keeping the spring brush contacts pressed into their guides. A pair of small screw drivers can do the trick. If your window motor bearing is not frozen with rust try tapping the motor housing lightly with a hammer. A brush contact may be hanging up on the guide.


    "As always, should you or any of your I.M. Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape/disc will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim."
     
  6. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran

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    #6 ozziindaus, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ^^
    Yep, it will likely come down to either the grease in the actuator gearbox, rusted motor bearings or both.

    Pull them apart and start cleaning/degreasing/regreasing (I used lithium grease). Make a tool so you can rewind the coil back onto the spindle (this is the most difficult part....not making the tool but winding it back on correctly). As mentioned, there are a few threads on this topic if you need further help.

    One more note, take plenty of photos of the cable routing. The WSM is incorrect (at least it was for tr)
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  7. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jim is asking about the 512TR system guys !

    A completely different and enhanced system, nothing like the idiot Testarossa system ... :)

    Did you find the info in my thread Jim ?
     
  8. JIMBO

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    Hi Mel and all others who responded. Yes, Mel, I printed out your write-up and had it with me during disassembly. The photos I find are invaluable during such products and it helped me to get the power window assembly out without complications.

    Regarding the motor, are the two wires 12v pos and neg and does the switch/relay assembly merely swap pos and neg to make the window go up or down OR is the motor grounded through the frame and does the switch/relay assembly merely send 12V to one wire at a time to make the window move?

    Mt power window unit looks brand new - nothing outwardly rusty, kinked or bent. I will bench test the motor tomorrow and post the results.

    The door speaker is a MB Quartz unit and looks aftermarket. I know the first owner (Sheik Abdus Koreshi) sent the car to a Ft Lauderdale stereo shop when new for alarm and stereo install. I have a previous post of the horrendous hack job they did on the gorgeous Italian wiring harnesses. I know the 512TR's did not come with a stereo head unit installed - but did they have speakers in the doors from the factory? And, if so, anyone know the type/brand?
     
  9. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

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    Hi Jim...I think mine were MB quart too.

    While you have the door panel off, see if they also glued the carpet down over the speaker hole mesh. It was like that on mine.

    I believe they came with speakers, but no radio head unit.
     
  10. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    I think the power is simply reversed to go down ... typical IT I think ...

    Please make photo's also ... and enhance my thread for future members Jimbo ! :D

    I think the motor is still perefct ... it's almost always the electric Gremlins here ...
     
  11. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Correct imo :D
     
  12. JIMBO

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    Dear Lear60man:
    Kinda right. It was the motor that was frozen. See below.
     
  13. JIMBO

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    Turbo-joe:
    Kinda right also. I had a plus AND a minus problem. See below.
     
  14. JIMBO

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    Mel:
    Yes and no. Yes, the power (+ and -) are simply reversed to make the motor rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise and make the window go up or down, but no, the motor was not perfect. (see below).
     
  15. JIMBO

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    #15 JIMBO, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    TF308: Correct on both counts. Here is what I found next to the speaker. Is this stock? And what is the soft, round, orange thingie behind the speaker?
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  16. JIMBO

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    #16 JIMBO, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    First I got a battery and applied 12v to the two wires coming out of the motor - NADA. I then took the motor off of the gearbox and the flexible screw mechanism. A bit of fusty liquid came out. Not a good sign. The mechanism could be turned by hand and the plate that attaches to the window went up and down easily.
    The MOTOR was the culprit.

    After taking apart the motor I found the commutator (the part that the brushes contact) was pretty fouled. There was some rust on the inside of the case, but everything seemed otherwise intact.
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  17. JIMBO

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    #17 JIMBO, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nothing seemed frozen, so I cleaned up all parts with electrical contact cleaner, WD-40, some long q-tips and a scotch-brite pad. The brushes looked good.
    The white plastic piece holds the brushes and there are two springs and two little holders that keep the springs in place. They pry out and push in. The brushes themselves are attached to the white plastic piece by a wire. I think it can all be dis-assembled, but I did not see the need. The little white plastic plug goes in the hole in the back of the motor case (there are two).
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  18. JIMBO

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    #18 JIMBO, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After that, I greased up everything that moved. The ends of the armature shaft have pieces of hard plastic for less friction. I shoved a good amount of grease into the gearbox and made a new gasket by the careful application of some RTV silicone. Then just screw everything back together.

    When re-assembling the motor, first fit the white plastic piece over the armature, then insert the springs and holders, and then slide the whole assembly into the motor case.
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  19. JIMBO

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    #19 JIMBO, Mar 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I greased up the flexible screw mechanism as well as the track and guide. A quick test with the spare battery and voila! everything moved in perfect harmony.

    The entire mechanism is then re-inserted into the door. When inserting the mechanism, it is helpful to have a buddy hold the window glass in the uppermost position, so as to give more room and avoid scratches.

    Once in place, hook up the wires and confirm movement using the switch (it did). Raise the window to the uppermost position with the window mechanism loosely attached to the window. You will have to play with the window to find the optimal position of the glass (the position of least resistance or friction when raising and lowering. The big bottom attachment bolt for the power window unit can be adjusted in or out to further optimize positioning.

    Right now the window slides up and down much quicker than before. Tomorrow I will re-attach the inner watershield and fashion a new outer watershield to replace the crumbly material removed earlier (cooked by 22 years in the Florida heat), and then re-assemble the leather panels and I'll be ready for a Ferrari Club drive on Sunday and a trip to the 12 hour race at Sebring on Wednesday (after a wash and wax).

    Thanks to all who contributed to this thread (especially Mel).
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  20. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Great job and write-up Jimbo ! Thanx.

    We see that as our car get older, a lot of failures are just by dirt, bad contacts and hardened grease and so on.

    Just cleaning does the job very often ... only problem is that some (plastic)parts may break as of age

    And how are we coping with that ... ?
     
  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    your are right mel with the plastic parts
    but what about the newer cars? much more plastic and much more less good material and also much more technical electronic stuff nobody needs

    so good luck with your future new car :), or you even have one???
     
  22. JIMBO

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    As I am putting the door back together, I need to know the function of the inner black plastic sheet. Ddid it cover the motor, go between the window glass and motor assembly, or just act as another moisture shield between the leather door panel and the rest of the door mechanisms. If I know why it exists, then maybe I can put mine back in the correct spot (anyone have photos?).
     
  23. 302Tim

    302Tim Formula 3

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    #23 302Tim, Mar 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jimbo--I can only speak for the Testarossa not a 512TR but my inner shield (on both doors) went between the window cables/motor and the door lock rods. My RH side had never been removed, the front of the LH shield had been peeled back at some point in time for motor work. The inner shield was made of the same material as the outer, and it was held in place by wide black electrical-type tape. I found some very similar which is used for roll-bar padding tape. Anyway, the top had a strip of tape running the full length and the tape folded over the top ledge of the inner door skin. then, as shown in the photos there were a few strips of tape along the cutouts keeping the shield against the inside of the door skin. The yellow strips are white double-sided tape that hasn't had the yellow backing strips removed--this again was as per original (on a Testarossa). I suspect the TR is similar in function. BTW I bought nearly identical bulk shield material from Home Depot--6 mil black plastic sheeting. My originals were used as a template to make new shields.
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  24. JIMBO

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    Thanks, Tim, that makes sense now. The photos really help.
     
  25. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

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    That is the cross over. It splits apart the signals from the radio to the speakers. The lower frequency (bass) gets sent to the bigger speakers in the door, while the treble is sent to the small speakers in the dash.

    Before you put the door panel back on, see if your speaker mesh is full of carpet glue,
     

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