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550 aftermarket springs and shocks

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by fatbillybob, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    Anyone know who is making aftermarket springs and adjustable shocks besides novitec? I hate to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to.
     
  2. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    Moton has 2 way 3 way or 4 way motorsport dampers as well as cheaper clubsport line for street going 550.

    http://www.motonsuspension.com/index.php?item=applicationsvervolg&brand=Ferrari

    I have 3 way motorsport dampers on our heavily modified 360C and 430C race cars. With these dampers you can really attack the corner and ride the curbs.

    As for springs, you can go with Eibach 60mm diameter race springs.
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Karting

    Dec 4, 2003
    73
    Denver, CO USA
    #3 Grant, Jun 15, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
    I don't have specific experience with a 550, but Moton products are superior to just about anything else out there!

    While they are highly adjustable, they are not electronically adjustable and you would be forfeiting the function of the "Sport" switch on the dash (and risk warning lights).

    From my experience, carefully chosen spring rates and shock settings with Motons will provide more comfort and far better handling than the stock equipment.
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    Thanks again my friend for the Moton suggestion. I did not know a package exists. It is too hot to roadrace with fireproof underwear/2 piece suit, and helmet so I put the Z06 racecar away for the season. I auto-x the 550M for the first time and the suspension even full stiff is terrible. The car understeers really badly with unacceptable bodyroll and under full aceleration the car actually waddles like it has no dampening at all! This setup may be OK for street GT drivers but for a racer I felt like I was driving an SUV.

    Do you have any ideas on front and rear spring rates? Whatever the car comes with now I need to at least double those rates.
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    Yes but the stock system is so poor it is not much of a loss except to loose a cool cockpit control. What I have to figure out is if I disconnect the shock ECU from the (I guess) can line to the motronic ECU if the suspension light will be off since the motronic will not see the shock ECU. I also need to find out if the alarm ECU can be taken out some way too. Because I have to press the fob button to kill the alarm I can't really convert to a keyless entry and pushbutton start. Any ideas on how the motronic sees the other ECU's?
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Karting

    Dec 4, 2003
    73
    Denver, CO USA
    It sounds like you would also benefit from some stiffer (and adjustable) sway bars. Does anyone make a set for the 550?
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    I am really only a user of suspensions with some mediocre racing skills and seat time. I have thought about sways and sways are easy to make. My first thought would have been sways but the front of the 550 is so soft 5mph hitting a speed bump will bottom the suspension. That is just too soft. If the softness was not so extreme I would rather just do sways to hopefully keep the straight level ride soft and cushy as it is very comfortable on a long drive. Ultimately all I want to do is up the wheel rate. What I do not understand is all the compromises of how that is achieved. Unfortunately I think all you can do is experiment. It is kind of like the battle of the exhausts systems we are seeing in the 348/355 section of whats the best exhaust. To "everyone" the best music does not exist. So I'm sure I'll come up with a great suspension system that someone else totally hates!
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    31,810
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    FBB- You can always install FHP springs and rear anti-roll bar. The Cosmos springs are only ~$220 each. You will not be bottoming out with those. The one shown in the 550 parts catalog for the 550 and 575M is $567, but the Cosmos springs in the 575M parts catalog are by an alternative maker and less than half the price.

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=280363

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  9. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2004
    463
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    I use springs I purchased from the now banned member Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer) and they are huge improvement over the stock springs, a number of other members also have his springs.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    It really sucked they banned fixer. He was a good guy. We did a few rounds in the ring together but he was always an ok guy. I wish he was back. He added some color to Fchat.
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    31,810
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Why was Phil banned? I remember he was very knowledegable on a wide variety of Ferrari topics.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  12. Pete Wall

    Pete Wall Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2005
    358
    Perth, Australia
    Hi Terry.

    My understanding, and I may be wrong because I didn't follow the 'action', is that it relates to Phil's strong reaction in forum posts in response to repeated criticisms. I know there was a long running disagreement with a customer of Phil's in the Aussie section. Phil works full time as an independent Ferrari mechanic in Melbourne, Australia. I believe Phil has focused exclusively on Ferraris since starting as a mechanic; I guess for 20 years or more. I have met Phil when he travelled to Perth for the Ferrari Club of Australia's annual national rally a few years ago. I have purchased parts from him. I have a contact phone number for him and will PM you. There were forum posts critical of Phil and his work and sometimes the threads got a bit heated. Regards, Pete
     
  13. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2004
    463
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    #13 stan996turbo, Jun 18, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
    *
     
  14. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    29,626
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    http://www.qrs-j.com/

    Send an Email to Quantum. They made the suspension for the infamous garage saurus 550 maranello (yes, the 1000hp twin turbo track 550). Apparently it costs $4800, but its not clear to me if it was for just the springs (tad expensive) or complete coilovers (to cheap, for a custom jobbie). Seeing as this is custom stuff, you're probably looking at the former.

    Also it may be worth emailing Tein, I seem to remember they do custom stuff now aswell (from springs to complete suspension setups).
     
  15. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2002
    3,737
    Bay Area Calif.
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    Dave
    #15 ferraridriver, Jun 19, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
    I’m working right now on modifying the front shock mounts to accept two rubber bushings instead of the metal bearing.

    There is something going on I simply don’t understand.

    The bump rubber is fastened to the upper mount instead on sliding on the shaft as is normal, but the strange thing is that it is eccentric to the shaft by maybe a quarter inch. The inside actually is molded oval instead of round.

    There are indications that the shaft rides against the bump rubber in its travel.

    I know Ferrari did this on purpose, but I can’t fathom why.

    One thing I do know is that there is no problem of actuators turning in 550 rears or 355 anywhere. The only thing in common with turning actuators is the offset, secured bump rubber rubbing against the shaft.

    Is this causing the shaft and the attached actuator to rotate?

    My solution using two rubber bushings effectively solves the turning actuator problem, but I don’t like unanswered questions.

    Clearly I’m overlooking something, but for the life of me I don’t know what it is.

    I really wish I could sit down over a pasta dish and glass of wine at Montana’s and discuss it with whoever designed it.
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    I say if you have given it good thought do not stress about it. Ferrari engineers are awesome no doubt but they also always select the low bid. So what they did on the front is probably the cheapest way they thought they could get away with not the best way. There is problem when upper mounts assist in shaft bind allowing sideloads shocks are not designed to handle. This cause early failure and worse yet unpredictable changes in wheel rate. The average Joe would never feel those effects but I would see them in inconsistent laptimes. I have no track plans other than the casual trackday since I already have a racecar but I want the car to at least perform to a high level. IMO the stock shock/spring just is not up to the way I drive or the roads I drive. I also believe that shock should be for tuning. Getting the spring rates right is what is required.
     
  17. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    86,056
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Heya FBB, I am just talking to Ferrarifixer and said he said to say hello to you guys! :):)

    He is watching and would like to thank you guys for your kind thoughts. :):)

    LONG story.........:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  18. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    18,570
    socal
    Hey PAP...I hope you are doing well. See if you can get ferrarifixer to come back to fchat. Tell him no thanks necessary he is an asset to fchat. The ferrarifixer legend just wont die. I've heard rumors from a racer of really nice motronic reprograming from him and fchat has seen his 550M exhaust work which is just awesome. I'd be glad to kiss some moderator be...hind to see "fixer" back on the boards. Rifledriver and Davehelms are doing most of the heavy lifting on fchat and their arms must be tired by now.
     
  19. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    #19 cwwhk, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
    Don't know what OEM road car spec is but my 550GTS which is FIA GT1 spec at around 1100kg have 380N/mm front and 200N/mm rears right now. I have optional springs as hard as 650N/mm for fronts and as soft as 140N/mm for rears. All are 60mm inside diameter and 100mm free length. Obviously these rates are not directly applicable to your street car as all the uprights and A-arms are different with 305mm wide slicks, but should give you a sense of front to rear balance.

    In comparison my 430GT3 at around 1200kg have 320N/mm fronts and 260N/mm rears. Also 60mm inside diameter but 100mm fronts and 120mm rears in free length.

    These Eibach race springs are less than 1/2 the free length of OEM 550 springs and the wire diameters are also much smaller so you'll save a lot of weight. Cost is less than $100/pc. If you choose softer spring rates then you'll probably need say 120mm or 140mm or even 160mm free lengths so you'll have enough suspension travel at reasonable street car ride height.
     
  20. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    86,056
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Heya mate, I am doing GREAT thankyou! :):)

    I dont think I could swing it mate. :(:(

    I think he will be banned for a LONG LONG time. Which is such a shame, he used to contribute a lot to Fchat. :):)
     
  21. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2004
    463
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    I agree I found his posts entertaining and informative, plus he did a great job with the spings and xpipe on my car. What did he do to get banned?
     
  22. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Aug 8, 2002
    3,737
    Bay Area Calif.
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    Dave
    #22 ferraridriver, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    FBB, FYI stock front springs in my 2000 550 are Eibach. 280mm free length, 100mm ID, 14.42mm wire dia. including powdercoat.

    9/16 = .5625, 14.42mm = .5675 so figuring the powdercoat is .005 thick its likely the wire is 9/16.

    Check out Eibach's site, the USA branch is right in your back yard, Compton, CA.

    On edit: Those are measured dimensions, according to the manual the wire dia is 14.3mm, free length is 276mm, and rate is 596 to 608 mm/n

    Hope this helps, Dave
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. rorschach23

    rorschach23 Rookie

    Feb 6, 2010
    16
    Hello.

    I have some 'noob' and maybe 'dumb' questions but here it goes :) :


    1) I tried to read as much as i can about the spinning actuators in the front shocks on the 550. I understand that the 575 doesn't have this problem and has superior quality ones from M(long name)-Sachs.
    So , can't i take the whole suspension system from the 575 and put it to the 550 ?

    2) If i want to replace the whole suspension system (shocks and springs) with something aftermarket (like Moton suggested here ) , and the warning light will apear in the dashboard , does that will affect the ECU of the car and won't let the whole power available (something like limp mode) ?

    3) Also removing the stock suspension with something aftermarket , will it affect the ABS/ASR ?

    4) Any more progres in rezolving the spining actuators ?

    I asked these because i'm after reliabiliy. I don't mind if i have to change the actuators or rebuilding them on a yearly basis but i don't want it to be like a gambling game and have them fail while i am on a roadtrip for example.
    I also understand that if going with something aftermarket and setuped properly will give a better handling etc.. but in these case it's not clear to me if / how this will affect the ECU's on the car etc

    So , thankyou for your patience and any imput is of great help.
     
  24. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    17,294
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    what are those spring rates in relation to the FHP and HGTC springs ? i think the FHP are 400lbs and 425 for the HGTC for the fronts...
     
  25. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2004
    463
    Philadelphia
    Full Name:
    Stan
    #25 stan996turbo, Nov 25, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2010
    Does anybody have any new information on an alternative suspension options for a 550, I would like to hear specifically form anybody whose tried Motons. Thanks.
     

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