550 aftermarket springs and shocks | Page 10 | FerrariChat

550 aftermarket springs and shocks

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by fatbillybob, Jun 15, 2009.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 10 of 10
  1. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #226 white out, Apr 5, 2020
    Whoops, that was a typo, they are MSC coilovers.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,361
    socal
    #227 fatbillybob, Apr 5, 2020
    You mean MCS as in motion control systems? If so those guys are good. The principal is the guy who was the primary guy at Moton before Moton got bought. I'm running Motons in the 550 and MCS in my Mustang racecar.
     
  3. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #228 white out, Apr 6, 2020
    MSC by Fortune Auto & Muller with Swift springs, skipped on the 2-way version as this is for my daily driver and I really don't need that much adjustability or an external reservoir. I considered Motons and KW as well (pretty sure that's all of the options).
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,361
    socal
    #229 fatbillybob, Apr 6, 2020
    Oh. I don't know those guys at all.

    If I wasn't doing something weird...driving my 550 on a track at times...I would do what delta vee did for my 348 racecar. I would have new soring seats cut from aluminum to fit the stock shock bodies. Then I would revalve the shocks for my soring choices. The advantage would be spring rates of my choice, springs i can source easy and vuy cheap 2.5", and stock computer adjusting of shock rebound as Ferrari intended.
     
  5. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 18, 2012
    3,495
    Canada
    #230 tres55, Apr 7, 2020
    What do you figure they would charge for that service?

    The MSC by Fortune Auto & Muller are $2999USD retail msrp. That's 62.5% less than the KW's and even more of a discount vs. Motons.

    One thing I noticed is KW's variants of the same model for other models are significantly cheaper. They're adding a Ferrari tax or is there something special about the ones they use on the 550/575?

    Wish I had a better understanding of spring rates and compression/rebound and how it relates to my sentiment towards the way my 550 drives...but I think what I'm experiencing is compression on rear is too soft and rebound on front is as well? Damn thing near floats when I'm giving it the beans coming out of a corner...nowhere near as confidence inspiring as my 355 was.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,051
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #231 tazandjan, Apr 7, 2020
    Your springs may be worn out and benefit from replacement. They do wear and sag over time. You could also try the FHP shock absorber ECU, something the 575 did not have. That will increase shock stiffness across the board during cornering without affecting ride too much. Part number 175949. A bit expensive now at ~$2500 from Ricambi, which is less than Eurospares (2500 pounds).
     
  7. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #232 white out, Apr 7, 2020
    I was highly considering KW, but they use the lower spring perch to lower the car and MSC & Moton also use an adjustable lower shock mount to change ride height. So you can set the spring height and coilover body height separately. Since I tend to lower my cars more than the average person this made MSC a better option for me (I run KW on my DeLorean and am very happy with them). I reached out to Moton for more information on their coilovers, but ultimately did not go that route because it seemed to be overkill for my application, but Moton is a highly respected brand.

    The reason I went with aftermarket coilovers instead of simply loosening the lower spring perches and lowering the 575 on the factory suspension is the OEM suspension’s characteristics. There is far too much pitch when on/off throttle and during braking. I’m honestly surprised there isn’t more roll while turning. The suspension is far too soft for what I expect out of performance variant Ferrari and more on par with a luxury sedan. Especially coming from a Viper on coilovers. I will follow up with info once the MSC coilovers are installed.
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,361
    socal
    #233 fatbillybob, Apr 7, 2020
    As a racer what I learned about shocks is that they are a black art. I only buy MCS or Penske or JRZ maybe I would buy and ohlin but only if I had no other choice. This is totally due to my own bias and i have no evidence to back me up. I buy MCS because the guy who started MCS is the guy from Moton who left when moton got sold off. I would not buy a moton shock today and don't know if they exist today once absporbed by AST. As a racer I want to predictably feel the turn of my adjustment knob. I want my car to feel as good at the beginning of the race as at the end as far as shocks go. That's "consistency". In spec miata racing they recently allowed a non-adjustable penske shock. The single greatest thing about that change was "consistency" throughout the entire race.

    For the street other things might be more important because you just aren't pushing that hard. Things like access to the adjusters or other fitment issues like tire diameter might be more important. It is easy to put parts on a car but it is difficult to get them all to work together. Parts working together is "development."

    So to answer you Q about spring rates compression rebound most just have faith in who they buy from and assume that will be OK. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't because of other things they did to the car or lack of development by the shock package builder.

    In my case I started with the math and conventional wisdom. There is a range of chassis frequency for various types of road car limo to performance car, racecar w/o aero and race care with aero. Pick where you think you want to be because of "your" compromises. Weight everything and do the math to derive and empirical spring rate. Then take whatever shocks you have and revalve them yourself if you understand the science or send them to a racecar shock rebuilder giving them all your data. Then you install all this stuff and test it on one or more tracks where you can do consistent laptimes and then tweek the shocks accordingly. The stopwatch never lies. This could be as far as you go.

    To win races this is just the beginning. The real job/art is developing the chassis which can mean more spring changes and more trips to the shock rebuilder and then the calculus involving sway bars, brakes driver wants, and all the rest. If it were easy everyone would be the Mercedes F1 team. It is super easy to screw up too. Remember the year Williams F1 was making real advancement and the next year they dropped into the toilet? That's development. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
     
    NE550, m5shiv and Auraraptor like this.
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,051
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #234 tazandjan, Apr 7, 2020
    Nick- There are a lot of things you can do to improve the handling on your 575M depending on when she was built without breaking the bank. Early shock absorber ECUs were way too soft in their scheduling and later ones make quite a difference in squat and dive.
     
  10. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #235 white out, Jun 8, 2020
    A few weeks ago I installed the MSC coilovers on my 575M. Rear was way too firm for a road car. So I ordered some softer springs and swapped them (took about 30 min). I just took the 575M out with the MSC lower spring rates and still dialing in the dampeners, once I have the new wheels & tires, going to corner balance the car. But at this point I am very happy with the comfort level and control of the car.

    Dropped 16.625 lbs from the factory suspension.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Added remote rear dampener adjusters so the rears can be adjusted from the trunk without removing any panels. Front are easily accessible with the hood popped. Now working on a fix for the error light. Looks like KW no longer offers them. But honestly, having the suspension error light on really doesn't bother me since I usually drive with ASR off.

    Side note, when lowering the 550/575 20mm spacers will be needed for the rear wheels. The rear wheels' shallow offset is exacerbated and the stance looks improper.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Il Tifoso, Auraraptor, NE550 and 1 other person like this.
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,361
    socal
    #236 fatbillybob, Jun 8, 2020
    What are the rates before you change to softer rear?
     
  12. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #237 white out, Jun 9, 2020
    went from 16k to 12k
     
  13. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 18, 2012
    3,495
    Canada
    #238 tres55, Jun 9, 2020
    Do you plan on doing anything do circumvent the error code on the dash or just gonna live with it?
     
  14. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #239 white out, Jun 9, 2020
    Working on a solution. But the suspension error light really isn't a bother since I usually have ASR off, so the dash light is illuminated anyways.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,051
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #240 tazandjan, Jun 10, 2020
    Nick- That would make two lamps, ASR OFF and the suspension warning lamp.
     
  16. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #241 white out, Jun 10, 2020
    Correct. So now there is a picture of a car instead of "ASR". So it's not an annoyance like most warning lights.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,361
    socal
    #242 fatbillybob, Jun 11, 2020
    1 wire change stops suspension light. I did it for my 550 running double adjustable moton coilovers but I cannot remember what I did. It was a 1 wire clip of suspension ecu under pass fusebox
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,051
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #243 tazandjan, Jun 11, 2020
    FBB- Different shocks and ECU (Sachs vs Bilstein), but should be very similar.
     
  19. fatauto

    fatauto Rookie

    May 1, 2018
    17
    CT
    Full Name:
    Adam R. Roina
    #244 fatauto, Mar 30, 2021
    Nick,
    Any updates on the MSC coilovers? In the market for a new suspension now and this kit is near the top of the list.
    Cheers, Adam
     
  20. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    #245 white out, Mar 30, 2021
    I am very happy with them. After the corner balance I haven't made any further adjustments.

    I swapped from 35 series to 30 series tires and it did firm up the ride, but it is still very comfortable.
     
  21. motts

    motts Karting

    Sep 1, 2015
    227
    Denver
    Full Name:
    Alex
    #246 motts, Nov 9, 2021
    Hi white out, was wondering if you would PM me about the MSC coilovers
    Thanks Alex.
     
    white out likes this.
Page 10 of 10

Share This Page