550 as a daily driver?

Competizione is absolutely, positively the best!!! Check out the midatlantic section for a plethera of positive referrals. I would put them up against anyone in the country.

 

Tom is right, have only heard good things about Competizione and Sports Cars. Wide choice of exhausts and multiple threads on the subject. Easiest (and cheapest) thing to do is replace the central muffler with straight pipes like they did on late 575Ms and see how you like it with stock mufflers. If still too quiet, consider an aftermarket exhaust. The best normal but nice sounding ones I have heard are the Japanese Kreiss-Siegs with valves. If you want outrageous sound like an FXX, straight pipes and a Novitec Supersport Sound with 90 mm tailpipes will give you all the jollies you need. You can terrify Lamborghinis, Corvettes, and Mustangs with that sound. Search here for Novitec and there is a recent video with sound. Same with Kreiss-Sieg, only a bit further back.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

The motor mount upgrade is a pretty normal and recommended upgrade (if they sag, they can knock off the oil pressure sending unit). As for the exhaust, the Tubi is very loud (but sounds great). If it's an occasion car then that's not an issue, but if you plan on driving it as a daily, it may be a bit much.

 

Duane- Exactly correct. The other thing Mark wants to ensure is the plenum hoses below the intake manifold have been replaced with the latest 575 type silicone hoses. Lots of threads on that one.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Mark- No clue. I got my Novitec for $2000 (half price) plus installation and then sold it for $1200 when I found an HGTC exhaust for $399. Most of the good systems seem to be around the $2-4K for non-valve systems and $1-2K more for valved systems. Can someone with Tubi experience chime in with numbers? Tubi was not one of the systems I considered.

Be advised there are 550 and 575M Tubi systems. The 575M Tubi matches up much better with straight or X-pipes replacing the center muffler. The 550 system seems to have been designed around the center muffler.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Mark -

Congrats, great to have another 550/575 in the Dallas area.

Window tint - I just had mine done by Earmark in Addison. They are fantastic to work with. I went with Pinnacle 35 non-metallic film.

Exhaust - I have Stebro straight pipes into a Tubi. You are welcome to come for a ride with me and listen before making any decisions. IMO, the exhaust note is PERFECT.

Maintainance/Repair - Besides Boardwalk Ferrari and Norwoods, which are the most often mentioned places in our area you might want to check out RUF in Addison. They now have Mike Luongo (sp?) on staff and he is a Ferrari factory trained mechanic and is excellent. I've done lots of work with RUF over the years with Porsche stuff and they are great to deal with.

BTW, I have put 1,300 miles on my 575 in the 3 weeks I have owned it.

 

There are more than you think. While you're at it, tell the folks at Boardwalk Ferrari in Plano to put the crack pipe down for 5 minutes. I flew out to drive their gated '04 Silver/Black 575. Nice car, but completely non-optioned (no FHP, no shields, stock exhaust, etc etc) and missing everything (no tool kit, no remotes, no books, no cover, etc etc) and also, the worst part, NO records at all. Nada. Zilch. Zippo. Oh, and another thing, it needs about $15k in services.

They want $129k and aren't budging. Helloooo?? Do people in Dallas get the paper anymore? Just askin'

ketel

 

I also drove that car also while I was shopping. Boardwalk has it on consignment from Jim at Sports Car Company (sponsor here). They actually made it very clear to me that Jim was ready to negotiate and would entertain an offer on the car.

 

Try US$200/tank in Europe.


Onno

 

Jakermc - Interesting. Perhaps you dealt with a more senior sales person, but the person I dealt with at Boardwalk was very underwhelming. Knew little to nothing about the car, or about most Ferraris, to be honest. Call me petty, but when you have to explain to an authorized Ferrari salesperson what FHP is, that does not bode well.

As to offers, I made two offers. Both were accompanied with long emails explaining my position. I do not simply low-ball as I think it's in bad form. They did not even respond to the first offer, which is also in bad form, IMHO, especially when you have a real buyer that flew 2000 miles on his own nickel to drive the car in question.

I waited a month and made a second offer. I specifically asked for a counter. They just said no. No counter-offer. They said that they work hard to price their cars "at market" so, ergo, their $129k asking was their idea of market value for this 575.

Here's where I am coming out: Happy to hear other opinions, but keep the nastiness to yourself if you are a 575 owner/seller and you disagree.

This was a 2002. 12k miles. No FHP. Gated. No Shields. Stock exhaust. At least 4 owners. Silver/Black. Nice car and drove as expected for a non-FHP 575. In other words, a little wallowy but ok. Given where non-optioned early MY gated 575s have recently sold, I'd say this is a $100-105k 575 in today's market.

Then you have to factor that it needed a major service, at minimum, and probably tires. It also hasn't had it's annuals in some time. The car's basically been sitting. So, now that $100-105k 575 is probably $90k, at best. THEN, factor in that it was missing all its books, manuals, warranty books, keys, remotes, tool kit, cover, etc. Apart from the red flags that raises alone, you have to factor in what that would cost in time/expense/aggravation to replace. Take at least another $5k off. [I am forgetting for the moment that you now have a 575 that does not have it's original paperwork, which for most Ferraris, means it will be hard to sell later on.]

Now, this 575 is maybe a $85k car. Now for the biggest problem. NO records. No service history. No idea what's been done to the car to date. So, for seven years (2002-2009) there is nothing. What's that worth? More importantly, be prepared to own this 575 forever because a Ferrari without any docs is almost unsellable unless you really want to discount it 30% or so off market.

So, I offered mid-to-high $70ks. My thinking was that after I did the major and replaced all the missing equipmment, and added FHP, I'd be at $100k in no time. It also did not address the fact that I'd still have a 575 without proper documentation.

Anyone think I was being unfair?

ketel

 

Yes, totally unfair and unreasonable.

You took $15,000 off for a major service? I major is $3,500. Tires are $1,500.00.

Books and manuals? you can buy for around a $1,000 with the leather.

Service records? With the exception of oil changes its very possible that nothing has been required, but contact previous owners to find out, get copies.

You are buying a used car, every other 575 is a used car, the market reflects that these cars are used, not new.

You are asking for a 40% discount, I would not have answered your email, I doubt if you were selling your car and someone offered you 40% less than asking you would bother to respond.

The service record a buyer really wants is the last service record, not the first. Once the major service has been performed that arguement goes away.

Now, not having the red key and alarm button, thats an issue. Do not deduct, demand that those be replaced or you do have an issue.

Good luck.

You will enjoy a 550/575

 

Ketel- You are not going to find a 575M you want to own for the 70s. I bought my 575M from Boardwalk and they were very pleasant and professional. They threw in a free battery charger and provided me a set of three new key fobs and the PIN after I took delivery of the car.

The $90K thrown out for the bottom of the 575M price range in the other thread is for cars with several of these problems: very high mileage, accident history, things not working, needing tires, TPMS sensors and service, incomplete service history and missing documents/keys/remotes, and possibly requiring cosmetic paint and leather work. The car at Boardwalk does not have enough of these issues to fit into that category.

Your low-ball offer undoubtedly led them to believe you were not a serious buyer, even though you had flown to see the car.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

You offered middle-high $70s for a car priced at $129K, and you are upset that your "offer" was not countered? Wait another year or two and maybe 575s will be there. By then, of course, we will be enduring yet another sob story about the unreasonable seller that will not let-go of his car for $40K.

 

Ketel, I think that the range you cited is a little narrow because there are very few cars in the universe of 2002 gated 575s for sale, but if that's the range then what you deducted for was already anticipated in the range. You offered around $79 and their price was $129. That's $50,000! Split the difference, which is what the dealer should have countered with and you are very close to where this car will likely sell. I am very surprised that they didn't counter at all, given that you had flown in to see the car. I have a lot more luck talking on the phone, rather than corresponding via email. It cuts through the tedious back and forth and you learn much more about the seller and the car and how motivated they are to sell. If it's a consignment from a collector, the price might be much more firm than a consignment from someone who just took delivery of a new car. Look at it from their perspective. If you knew they were asking $129 and the high end of the market is $105, why did you fly out there in the first place? In the future, I suggest calling the seller and talking in detail about your concerns and determine if they have room to negotiate. If not, stop wasting your time and let them continue to waste theirs until they get a dose of reality. You have been looking for a long time. What's your hurry? I talked to a seller on and off for months about a car that he had. His price was very high, but the car was very nice with very low miles. It needed some work, which I pointed out. The seller then fixed some of the things I mentioned and raised his price even higher. With some of the work completed, I offered to give him his original asking price and countered with his new higher price, so I was through negotiating. I eventually bought the car I have today for the price I was willing to give on the other car. Two months later, the seller offered that car to me for less than my best and final offer. Sorry, I'm no longer in the market.

 

Ketel - In post number #33 you stated the car was a 2004, then a couple of posts later you state it's a 2002. If this occurred in the last 60 days, the car is in fact a 2004 with 11K miles and is still listed on their website. That is the car I drove and it is the only silver/black manual tranny 575 that Boardwalk has had in inventory over the last 60 days. If longer than that, I have no idea if we are talking about the same car.

The one I drove had deviated stiching, aftermarket shields (the good ones), and the tires were just fine. Car drove beautifully and the leather was perfect. To be honest, I would not have responded to an offer of $75K either. Boardwalk is a wonderful dealership to work with, and I am told the owner of the car (Sports Car Company) is as well. I just think the gap between what you offered and the probable selling price of the car was too great to result in a productive dialog between the parties involved. I also think an emailed offer is in bad form. A low offer ($50K off asking price) done via email hardly seems like a serious way to open negotiations.

 

jakermc - Correct. My mistake. I meant 2004, not 2002.

cmparrenzo - Yes, that's the problem. The dealer was unwilling to furnish me with previous owner history or documents. No copies were made available to review. Same for the keys, etc. They did not furnish them and did not seem interested in replacing them, regardless of the offer. Again, bad communication/body language is probably what tanked this deal more than anything else. My offer was based upon my assessment of the risk I was taking given everything unknown or missing with the vehicle and what I felt the market was. It was a first pitch, if nothing else. My sense was that the dealer/owner was not motivated enough to really sell. If so, they would/should have come back with some offer to supply the missing docs/tools/books, etc and a counter in the $100-110k range and we could have gone from there.

When I first engaged with the dealership on the car, they were not pricing it. It was simply listed as Call for Pricing. On the phone I told the salesperson where I thought the market was and the response was "make an offer." Obviously, if I knew they were stuck at $129k given everything missing/unknown I would not have visited the vehicle.

Exactly my point

ketel

 

Most serious buyers do not go around offering $50K less than the asking price on a $129K car. So, they probably thought you were just trying to waste their time. Most cars probably sell within 5% of the asking price unless the owner is very desperate. Many can afford a car in this price range so I doubt the dealer felt much pressure. If you want the car, make a serious offer.

P.S.: I have no ties whatsoever with the dealer - just giving advice

 

Sure makes sence but in this environment little is selling fast. The real price of any item is what you can sell it for right now in the environment of that day. There is a price you can sell it at in 5 minutes, a price for a sale in a week , and price for a sale in a year. Take Symbolic a F dealer in So cal. They got a 360C they have been not trying to sell of over 1 year that I know about it. Every so often they put it on Ebay like right now fishing for a sucker. If they want to sell the car they need to lower the price and that price will fall every year as the asset depreciates. If they want the "for sale trophy" in their showroom then they are doing the right thing by keeping the price high so no buyer would buy it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy a car with any issues. Books, service history, keyfobs, it all needs to be there. You pay more, but you enjoy more. And if you ever sell, you don't have to explain anything.


Onno

 

i understand ketel's "sum of the parts approach". he's put a FMV on the car and has deducted for his wants / needs.

he's trying to price the "wrong" car to meet his needs.

it's like looking at a $1M home and asking the seller to reduce the price by $250k+ because you think it needs a pool, 4 car carriage house and a home theater.

seller should service the car and hold out for a decent premium. it is a GATED 575.

was sheehan's serviced ? if so, that car was scoop at $100k. what are gated 575's are for sale?

 

If you're on the hunt for a low-cost gated 575, you'd probably be better off buying a high quality 550.

The tdf blue 1998 550 I bought has been an excellent car so far.
I love the endless supply of power and the old-school style of shifting is a lot of fun.

A nice 550 with all the documentation and accessories can probably be found for under $75k these days.

Good luck.

 

Ketel, frankly I didnt like the car for the reasons cited. Also, my limited experience w/ B'walk is positive, however its my opinion that their prices tend to be on the higher end of the range.

 

Here is the car in question: http://tinyurl.com/nqk6ly

Extras include a clear bra installed and a TUBI exhaust. IMO, when I test drove it I had no question it was a six figure car.

As others have said, things like keys and books are EASILY replaced for relatively little money. You'll note that the auction says these things are included so the seller may have already replaced whatever was missing.

With regards to maintenance records, again, they can be easily obtained in most cases for a car of this age. More likely than not its been serviced by a dealer. Run the CarFax, find out where the vehicle lived, and call the dealers who are nearby. I've never been turned down before. Once I had a dealer who would not fax copies unless I was the owner but they read out all the dates and work done. It may not be too hard to find the last owner either, which is another way to go. It's a Ferrari, not a Chevy, and the world is pretty small when it comes to these things. I found the original owner of my car by searching old posts on F-chat. The second owner was revealed to me by the selling dealer.