Guys, I'm faced with a difficult choice. Ferrari dealers have been worrying me with tales of doom regarding the resale value of my car (black/tan '00 F550 with barchetta wheels), saying that beyond 30,000 miles there's no hope to sell the car and all this crap. Fact is, I had planned to sell the car in 2009 and hopefully find a decently priced F430, by which time my car will have around 40,000 miles. Today I've been offered another F550 exactly like mine, but with 17,500 miles. If I buy it for 2007, I'll probably sell it in 2010 or 2011 with perhaps 28,000 miles. What should I do: stick to my car until 2009 and hope it's not lost all its value, or listen to the prophets of doom and get this low mileage one, but resell it when it's 10 or 11 years old (and what will the resale value be then???). Another aspect is maintenance: can I expect any serious expenses when the mileage goes in the high 30s, which would justify the loss of $20K to move to the low mileage car?
I could be wrong, but wouldn't a lower mileage, higher priced car depreciate more per mile over the same period of time than a higher mileage car (that has already depreciated a lot). The cost of ownership (depreciation-wise) seems like it would be cheaper for the already heavily depreciated older car. Unless the depreciation curve steepens past 30K miles (which it might). As for maintenance issues with the higher mileage car, I can't address from personal experience but there are tales of the 550 being pretty reliable even with some miles on them.
Its all FUD. When your 550 hits 30k, you will need to do the major service. If you sell the car at 40k miles, a buyer can reasonably ask for the minor service to be performed/taken into consideration for price. With either car, by the time you plan to sell you must do a major, simply given its age. Keep your car, enjoy it and deal with it in 09. -dsd
I bought the car with the major service done, including belts. So all it needs is simple year oil changes until 2008, when it will need the 3-year cambelt change, but I don't think there's another major before 70,000 miles, by which time I'll have sold it anyway. On the other hand: the car with 17,500 miles is due for the 20,000 miles service, which seems to be fairly standard - nevertheless, more expensive than a year check, I suppose.
I went thought the same thought process when I purchased my 550 with 20K on it(now with 23K miles on it-2 months later). I drive my 550 almost everyday and went on the hunt for a 550 with 20K or more on it. There is some great fear at this 30K mark that makes zero sense. I was in a shop yesterday that had 3 550's in it. One getting a major and the others getting general services--all were over 30K on the dial-1 had 57K miles on it and looked great the others were in 35K+ miles and 40K miles. My other 550 which was a 1998 with 31K miles on it is a daily driver for a local guy here in the bay area. He now has 44K miles on it with no problems. I sold it 2 years ago for $105K which was the lowest price many people had seen in a while. The dealers were not willing to touch it as they want to sell new cars not used ones. Do you think 40K-50K miles 550 will be worth $45-$50K? If so, the 328s, 348s, and 355s will worth $20-$35K or less? The buyers will be different for a 550 with 40K+ on it vs. one with 15K or less. They will most likely be looking for a car that is well maintained and can be a driver vs. not. The 550's and all Ferrari's have greater problems when not driven. This is a fact....There have been many post on this board as it relates to this subject. I purchased a 1 owner very well maintained and driven 550. I had the 30K/5yr service (only recently has it changed to a 3yr service) completed the first month I purchased the car. Keep your car and stop thinking about the miles, the dealers continue to perpetuate this problem within the Ferrari community. I personally feel it takes away from the joy of driving these cars for some owners. Should I take it on a road trip? What about the miles? Value? Sorry about the rant... Hope that helps
keep your present 550...a 550 with 40k is not many miles for that engine. that model needs to be driven a "bayarea" stated. imho there will be many buyers in the future for a 550 with 40k. other models i would think twice with 40k but not a 550/575
Thanks, your post reflects my thoughts perfectly. I am really pissed about dealers perpetuating this myth by not wanting to touch medium mileage Ferraris (not even talking about "high" mileages...) while the Porsche dealer down the road happily traded in a 50,000 miles 996 Turbo which (it's proudly documented in its history) has been to the Nürburgring 14 times (!!!!) plus to many other lesser racetracks for $65K, and is now reselling it for $72K with full factory warranty... I wish Ferrari dealers had a similar attitude to their own cars, it puts less pressure on the owners and actually I think that showing a bit of confidence in the durability of your product must surely be good marketing, or what? You are right, I'll keep my car and maybe I'll trade it in 2008 for a 30K miles 575 Fiorano HGTC, judging by the dealers' attitude I should be able to snap one up for peanuts
That's the way to go! Daily drivers are tipically in better shape than those that are seldom driven and if maintenance and appearance are kept up, there is no reason why the cars with some miles on the clock should become outcasts. Ferrari dealers and FNA need a change of attitude IMO. Saluti,
i don't think the pricing differential between those two cars plus any transaction costs (taxes, etc) you are going to incur will wind up saving you any money. when i comes time to sell a lower mileage car may have a +$10k value ?? which choice would be financially prudent : a) buy and drive a 550 for 5 yrs and say 50k miles or b) buy / sell a 550 every 15k miles over the same 5 year period. i'd say owner A will experience less costs, less hassles and more enjoyment.
Like quite a few people, I have an older TR (flat 12) with some 50,000 miles. It runs great and yes SOME people would not want to buy it because of the miles but really! A hi tec company like Ferrari, (don't mean latest fad hi tech) modern oils and regular use all combine to make the TR and probably also the 550 and any other car today a high mileage roller. Fear of 65,000 miles years ago are gone forever and that's even without oil changes every 3,000 miles. European cars have seen the light but they don't get kick backs from US oil companies, Jag XK8R had oil changes 15,000 miles, 96 Porsche twin turbo 15,000 miles, current Porsche Cayman 20,000 miles. Keep your existing car and sell it privately to people like me who love a driven driver(for a fair price not way below dealer) . Then go to a dealer to be taken on your new car or buy another used car from some realistic dealer/or private seller. Must get off my soap box now! Hope you all don't flame me for this. Hotrod
I have 27K on my 99 550 and love driving every mile of it!!!! I don't buy cars for other people to enjoy, I buy them to drive.... you only live once so you might as well enjoy the ride! And having a F car sitting in your garage to look at is a waste of time... get out and do what they were made to do... be driven.
Let me see if I understand the issue; You have sorted out your car and enjoy how it drives now with the only reason you're thinking of trading it in is to buy another used car because that car has fewer miles?
Well... yeah. The reasoning behind this was slightly more complex though. I thought A) what if my car needs a new clutch in the next two years (it shouldn't but it is more likely than on a 15,000 miles car)? B) what if something serious breaks down (shock absorbers, water pump, etc.)? C) I could postpone the belt service since the car I could buy has just done it. In any case, I'm not sure anymore, the price difference I get means I'll lose more money than it will cost to replace the clutch and the water pump 10 times anyway . I'll let this guy sit on his unsold car until spring, and if then he's ready to sell it at a reduced price with a full Ferrari-Power warranty thrown in, then I might think about it.
If you want to move from a 550 to an F430 because the mid-engined V8 is a different type of car, I could see that. Not sure I'd move from one 550 to another. I'd agree with others here, though, that you've already taken the mileage-depreciation hit, so you might as well keep driving. FWIW, I think the 550 is a better looking car than the F430. When my circumstances permit, I would love to keep my 328 (sports car) and add a 550 (GT car) with enough miles that I could use it as a driver. A black and tan 550 is smoking hot, IMO. I say keep it and enjoy.
Absolutely keep it. Look, you've got a well sorted example... no surprises left. That fact equals confidence in its relability and I don't know any exotic owner that doesn't place a high premium on that piece of mind. I'm not an owner nor am I close to any owners of 550/575's, but I recall reading many times about showroom new 550's needing little fixes. These fixes were small, non driving, anoyances. In your case, those have all been fixed. The high buck stuff (engines, transmissions, suspensions and much of the electronics) were solid from the begining. I remember in one of the head to head comparison tests on the early 550's, FNA reps were approached by the car mag doing the test about running the 550 at sustained speeds above 180 MPH (or some such ridiculously high speed on a banked oval) and the reply was "No problem, it'll do that all day long." The test turned out to be a total snooze because it actually did. They just wound it up and ran like 20 laps on a 7 mile banked oval, got bored, and concluded that the rep was right. No fuss, no sphincter puckering moments, no blown engine and no oily spots left on the track. That seems indicative to me that 30,000 miles of normal use, with solid maintenance, actually translates to a MORE desireable vehicle because it's proven, well sorted, and all those fears that any exotic owner harbors about what might happen either already did, or never will.
Looking at your reasoning many of us who have 550's have looked at moving to a 575 but pulled back. Let first state that each has their own issues and I have had both and keep ending up with a 550. The only reason to have a 575 is for the F1. All the other items are small as it relates to the driving experience. The F1 transmission can be a problem which is far more expensive than a regular clutch. The 575 aslo have a bit of room left to depreciate, but not much as we are talking about 1/4 million dollars car regardless of a 550 or 575. So, as I have said before the 550 unless you really want a F1 transmission is your car for the next several years. I do have several friends that burn the F1 clutches up faster as a result of leaving the car in gear at lights etc...vs driving a 550 you always have the car in N when sitting at a light or in traffic. Last item-call the dealer(just as a reference) to get the cost on replacing a regular 6 speed clutch vs the F1. If memory serves me(6 speed--$1.5-$2K), the F1 was $5-8K. The millage is not going to hurt you at this point just make sure it is very well maintained and document.
Nuts! My 550 has 63,000 miles on it and has had its second major. I guess my car is worthless. Oh, well. It still runs fine, looks good, and goes very quick. Maybe if I am lucky I could trade it for an older 911. No, I will not. I guess I purchased the beast for the long run and not for the next buyer. Boy, I am stupid. I just enjoy the thing. 12 cylinders or walk
It is not worthless!! Our main dealers in Switzerland are trading F550s with about 50,000 miles for around $70K. If well maintained they still sell very strongly. The problem is that the same hypocritical dealers will frown, fidget and harrumph if you try to trade-in a medium-mileage car, saying that "they won't be able to re-sell it, the value is low, blah blah blah" all bullsh!t if you ask me. I've seen what prices they ask for good high mileage Ferraris, and I've seen how easily they sell them. Hypocrits!! Ferrari should do something about their dealer network. I've seen much more professional and consistent behaviour at Lambo dealers.
I think by now any swiss dealer will frown and give you a pitiful trade-in value for your 550, no matter what the mileage is. I thought long and hard about selling mine, my dealer talked me out of it, he's got too many and they aren't moving, he would not even take it in consignment ! I did not check inventories at Foitek, Hasler & Co, but I doubt things are really different, moreover if you count consignment cars which are not even listed. Frankly Andrea, I don't see any sensible reason for taking two depreciation hits instead of one. If your dealer was walking the talk, he would have made you an offer.
But you know the funny thing? I've been monitoring the 550/575 market for a while, and I can say that at the right price, 550s sell very quickly. Hasler had a black '00 F550 with 42000Kms, he sold it within weeks at 115000 Sfr. Foitek had 3 F550s with more than 40000Kms, two of them were sold within one month at around 100000 Sfr, only one remains. A friend of mine got a '98 F550 (31000Km) on consignment from a customer, and he managed to sell it in 1 WEEK (!!!), admittedly for only 90K. What is really NOT selling in Switzerland are F575s - I see the same cars over and over again. Foitek now has 4 low-mileage black F575s, two of them F.1. Hasler has a fantastic dark blue F575 with Fiorano package and 19'' split rims, which he's been trying to sell me for the last month, plus another 3 or 4 similar cars. The "other" Hasler, the MB dealer, also has 2 F575s in his showroom, one a fabulous Fiorano with bucket seats and only 20000Kms. Why are they not selling? Because both Foitek and Hasler ask unrealistic money for these cars - they won't go below 148000Sfr (that's for the blue Fiorano from Hasler), but at the same time they refuse to give a decent trade-in for my car. Is my 550 worth 60K less than a 575? No way. So, until the dealers realise that 575s are ripe to take a big depreciation hit, they're going to sit in their showrooms. IMO 550s are much easier to sell, in the 90-110K range.
This has been a very interesting discussion and having just gotten out of my 355 I am in the market for a 550. If any of you know a clean car, preferably yellow/black, blue/tan, rosso barchetta/tan. please point the seller my way. This discussion notwithstanding, I would prefer a car with under 20k miles. Thanks in advance for your help.
If the dealer is acting pricey why can't you sell it privately when the time comes? I say keep the car - at least you are dealing with a known entity - who knows what issues a new 550 will have.
That is how dealers make most of their money. The reason why it is more so for Ferrari than for Lamborghini is because the the market for Ferraris is much bigger and more active than that for Lamborghini, not because the dealers are more honest or have a softer heart. Enjoy your car and forget about the bloody dealers. BTW, the F1 on average requires a new clutch about the same time you need to replace the timing belts: if you do the math, the picture you get is not pretty.... Saluti,
