550 Fiorano upgrade---> now a GTC upgrade? | FerrariChat
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550 Fiorano upgrade---> now a GTC upgrade?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by sixcarbs, Dec 24, 2005.

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  1. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #1 sixcarbs, Dec 24, 2005
    I've been through all of the archives, this thread below is the definitive thread on upgrading to Fiorano along with the FNA bulletin you can download off of it.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/211863.html

    The offical list from FNA~
    x2 175886 Front springs
    x2 175887 Rear Springs
    x1 175890 Rear Sway bar
    x2 130533 Rear sway bar bushings
    x1 175949 Susp. ECU
    X1 175891 ECU Relay
    x1 70000952 Front (squeaky) Pads
    x1 70000953 Rear Pads

    ==============================================

    Well, I had decided to leg into a Fiorano Handling Package upgrade on my 550. I ordered the rear sway bar, the bushings and the power steering ECU. I was deferring the springs and the suspension ECU until a later date.

    The 21mm sway bar had to come from Italy and took some time. It arrived and it had a different part number, 210888 instead of 175890. It also only measures 20mm, instead of the Fiorano 21mm.

    According to the parts department, the sway bar they sent is for the GTC package, they say the Fiorano sway bar is no longer available. (I was a little surprised that the GTC sway bar is smaller than the FHP one, I would expect it to be equal or larger.) Classic Italy when you think of it, just send what they have.

    Fine, I'll go the GTC route if possible. I have searched the archives and nobody has ever posted definitive part numbers on the GTC package. This is the closest thread I have found:

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33314

    I believe the 575 GTC (street car) included a stiffer suspension, sway bar and springs, the power steering and suspension ECU upgrade, the Carbon Ceramic brakes, improved exhaust flow, and faster shifting for the F1 system (Not applicable).

    Does anyone have the part numbers for the GTC upgrade or the relevant bulletin. I got all of this news at the end of the day today, and the parts department was closing early for the holiday. I was hoping that someone had a similar bulletin found in the link above for the GTC set up.

    If I do go with this sway bar, I want to be consistent and go GTC upgrade across the board. In particular, I want to make sure the power steering ECU is the same before I have the FHP one installed.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #2 stephens, Dec 24, 2005
    I know this doesn't answer your question, but I have a full FHP kit for the 550 including suspension ECU etc. I have converted my car to a track setup which no longer uses the actuators, ECU, springs, or sway bars. The GTC ECU's and brake ducting will not work with the 550 and the cost of the brake upgrade is prohibitive.
     
  3. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #3 sixcarbs, Dec 24, 2005
    Stephens, just the man I was hoping to hear from.

    When you say the GTC's ECU's will not work, does that include the "power steering ECU" or is it just the "suspension ECU?"
     
  4. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #4 stephens, Dec 24, 2005
    Suspension only. 575 uses "skyhook" dampers, which operate on a completly different principle to the Bilsteins used in the 550. From memory, the sway bar actually measures 20mm, not the 21mm specified, but still works out to a 75% increase in stiffness. The most important part of the upgrade is the springs.
     
  5. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #5 sixcarbs, Dec 24, 2005
    Thanks,

    So now I need to find out if the FHP steering ECU is the same as the GTC steering ECU. And if so, how different?
     
  6. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    #6 judge4re, Dec 24, 2005
    There are different ECUs for the steering?

    That's it, I'm sticking with the classic cars...
     
  7. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #7 stephens, Dec 24, 2005
    Don't think so, the 550 and 575 use the same servotronic steering. The ECU installed in my car now is part No 175891 ( I have the box in front of me now), the same used in the 575. Suspension ECU is 175949
     
  8. maranello71

    maranello71 Formula 3

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    #8 maranello71, Dec 27, 2005
    The ECU may be the same (identical hardware and pins allocation) but the software is definitely different. I know, I work developing software for automotive applications and there are continuous developments - no way the 575 will have the same programming as the 550.
     
  9. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

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    #9 bobafett, Dec 27, 2005
    Can you say this definitively between the part numbers? Do you work for Ferrari or subcontract and know the specific part numbers involved and the programming of such?

    --Dan
     
  10. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

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    #10 iceburns288, Dec 27, 2005
    Exactly my thoughts... I'm so confused at the moment. ECUs are for engines! ;)
     
  11. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #11 sixcarbs, Dec 28, 2005
    I stopped by Ferrari of SF and spoke to Dave, the manager of the parts department. He was very helpful.

    It doesn't look like there is a different steering ECU for the GTC, looks like they use the FHP one. He still needs to make one more call to confirm.

    The bushings for the GTC sway bar (Officially listed as 19.5mm) have part numbers on one system but they don't show up on the computer that shows the pricing.

    Springs,

    The 575 actually has two different sets of springs listed for the GTC with little notation.

    There is a different suspension ECU listed for the 575 but no pricing is available for it in the computer either.

    For those who want to know pricing,

    GTC sway bar $800 (ballpark)
    FHP Steering ECU 175891 $850 (ballpark)
    FHP Springs (F & R) $550 each
    FHP Suspension ECU 175949 $2,630
    FHP Bushings (2) $65 each (ballpark)
     
  12. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

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    #12 bobafett, Dec 28, 2005
    There is no way that ecu is worth 2500.

    Stephen: what kind of springs did you go with all around? How streetable is it?

    --Dan
     
  13. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #13 stephens, Dec 28, 2005
    400lb front 300lb rear, bette ride than stock IMO. Now running 1750lb front 1250lb rear.....
    The Suspension ECU cost me around $4K AUDfrom memory.The 575 and 550 suspension ECU's are not interchangeable, but the steering ECU's are identical.
     
  14. maranello71

    maranello71 Formula 3

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    #14 maranello71, Dec 28, 2005
    I'll have to ask my colleagues more aware of the technical details of the hardware, but I'm sure on each programmed ECU there is an alphanumeric identifier which determines which dataset has been loaded.
    The ECU is a standard item as used in several automotive applications, what really makes the difference is the programming (fuelling maps, etc.). Since the 575 has a larger engine there is no way it would have the same programming as the 550. Also it is several years younger, which means the 575's ECU will include several newer OBD-mandated monitoring functions which were not required at the time the 550 was released.
     
  15. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #15 sixcarbs, Dec 28, 2005
    These are very specific stand alone ECU's, they have nothing to do with engine management. One of them only controls the variable power steering based on vehicle speed, the other controls the rebound rate of the shocks based on speed and other factors.

    Stephen, can you fill us in on the other factors please? G-force, rate of turn??? Thanks
     
  16. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #16 stephens, Dec 28, 2005
    The FHP ECU increases compression, but mostly rebound. If I get time I will post a scan of the shock valving. In my understanding, the FHP ECU, effectively just dials in more compression and rebound, earlier to deal with the increased spring rates.
    For clarity, the car has a steering ECU, which appears to be just an overpriced relay unit, a suspension ECU, two Bosch engine ECU's and an Airbag ECU. There are probably a few others, but none that I can think of right now.
     
  17. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #17 sixcarbs, Dec 28, 2005
    So would it be fruitless or worse, counterproductive to install the FHP springs without the FHP suspension ECU?
     
  18. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #18 stephens, Dec 28, 2005
    I drove my car for two months on the old ECU before upgrading. The really signifcant changes are at higher speeds - 160kmh (from memory) plus, which unless you are tracking the car, or live in Europe, is not that relevant to most owners.
     
  19. ccr2002

    ccr2002 Karting

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    #19 ccr2002, Jul 10, 2006
    I'm about to order the above parts...any final thoughts on whether to spend the money for the suspension ECU or is the main improvement in the coils and springs?
    thanks
    chuck
     
  20. ccr2002

    ccr2002 Karting

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    #20 ccr2002, Jul 13, 2006
    So, i've found out that the 575 upgraded suspension part is not 175949, which as stated above is for the 550. With the skyhook, one needs a different electronic control station. Part no. 210578 is 575 HGTC shock absorber control station...Does anyone know for sure if this is correct and would it work fine in a 575?

    thanks
     
  21. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #21 stephens, Jul 13, 2006
    Yes, this is the correct unit. FWIW I have heard of dealers having a free software upgrade performed on client cars who complained about the suspension being too soft. Obviously they had a good relationship with the dealer for this to occur.
     
  22. ccr2002

    ccr2002 Karting

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    #22 ccr2002, Jul 14, 2006
    Harris Imports here in SLC is an awesome dealership...and they already mentioned that when the first 2002s came out the had a few ECU "reprogrammed" or replaced but they thought that by late 2003 when mine was made that the stock ECUs were all upgraded and that the "fiorano or HGTC" ECU would be another part entirely...that the factory would not allow reprogramming mine. It would be nice if they could though. I'll ask again.

    thanks for the confirmation that this is the correct part number...now to find one.
    chuck
     

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