550 Motor Mounts - Your opinion on oil sender/torsion bar clearance | FerrariChat
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550 Motor Mounts - Your opinion on oil sender/torsion bar clearance

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Bertt, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. Bertt

    Bertt Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2011
    277
    The Netherlands
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    Bert
    #1 Bertt, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dear friends,

    Over the last couple of days I have searched the archive and read virtually all discussions about the 550 motor mount issues. Reason for diving into this is the following:

    - motor mounts replaced when I bought the car as part of the agreement with the previous owner. This was about 5 months ago
    - New Original 550 motor mounts were used (partno. 168358), I have seen them before they went in and these were absolutely new parts ordered from Eurospares in the UK
    - Km driven since then: approx. 400

    I just brought the car into the main Ferrari dealership for the mandatory annual safety inspection in the Netherlands (APK) and much to my surprise one of the side remarks they made was that they felt the motor mounts should be replaced...... I commented that they were just replaced 400km/5 months ago and they mentioned they felt some clearances were not enough (they mentioned clearance between engine and subframe).

    You can imagine I am very surprised about this and wonder what to do. Before just having them replaced again (but now with the 575 mounts), I would very much value the boards expert opinions on this!

    Unfortunately I don't have a lift so it's a bit difficult to have a good view of all things deep down the engine and the underside, but I tried to make some pictures of the clearance between oil pressure sender and the torsion bar via the space at the left side wheel. I can easily put my finger between the sender and the torsion bar. I have also tried to measure the clearance and it is approximately 1.5 cm (0.6").

    What do you guys think?

    Appreciate your thoughts !!!

    Bert
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  2. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    #2 Cribbj, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
    Bert, one of the next modifications I'm working on for my 550 is to relocate that pesky sender somewhere where I won't have to keep losing sleep about it being knocked off. Plus, getting it up and away from the road will keep it cleaner and eliminate the other problem these senders have, which is giving bogus readings when their terminals are contaminated with road crud, grease, etc.

    A piece of aluminum plate with a -4 AN fitting, a 1.0m length of hose and a little bracket to fasten it either to the engine or the car ought to be just the ticket. FYI, it has an M18 x 1.5 thread.
     
  3. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
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    #3 166&456, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
    It doesn't look immediately worrying to me? I have never heard that the Dutch APK worries about these things, but being a Ferrari dealership I can imagine they saw issues with this before, so enough to take it seriously. It is a tight spot indeed but over a centimeter of room is still not frighteningly small.

    Is there room to the top where that sender is located? If yes, you could look into adopting a similar setup of a Fiat 124 Spider where there are two sensors, an oil pressure warning light sensor and the pressure sender. The warning light sensor goes into the block hole, while the oil pressure sensor goes onto a small aluminum block that is bolted onto the block using the warning light sensor; the pressure sensor points to the side. I have those parts lying around somewhere and I will measure them, pretty sure the hole in that block is smaller than M18 though so this is probably not an immediate solution and you'll have to have a block made on specification and bolted to the engine using a banjo bolt.

    EDIT: this is the unit I was speaking of, it's 12mm so not immediately useable unfortunately. http://www.midwest-bayless.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=208227&c=192922&i=258649234
     
  4. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Formula 3

    Mar 23, 2004
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    #4 Ferris Bueller, Mar 11, 2012
    I thought when you replace the motor mounts on a 550 you upgrade to the 575 motor mounts for better clearance...right or wrong?
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    #5 tazandjan, Mar 11, 2012
    Dominic- The 575M mounts tend to settle less than the 550 mounts when worn and provide more clearance as they age.
     
  6. deanhalter

    deanhalter Formula Junior

    Dec 27, 2008
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    #6 deanhalter, Mar 11, 2012
    That looks like plenty of clearance to me. My car had motor mounts that were bad for quite some time and the engine sump was rubbing the hard line at the top of the power steering rack - no issues with the sensor though.

    The roll bar will deform under hard cornering but not enough to hit the sensor from that distance.
     
  7. moorfan

    moorfan Formula Junior

    May 11, 2009
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    #7 moorfan, Mar 11, 2012
  8. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    #8 308 GTB, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    #9 ferraridriver, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have an idea. ;)

    Would this work, I think there's enough room in front of the filters. It could go on either filter port. It looks like there is enough meat to drill and tap one of the 1/8 NPT ports (major Dia .405) out to M18X1.5 (major Dia .708) for the sender. You'd have to experiment to find the best port, you can reverse the adapter plate to give another set of choices. The wires might even fit without any modification

    Might be worth a try next oil change.

    You would have to buy a drill bit (21/32) and a M18X1.5 tap, or have a machine shop do it for you, and of course a M18X1.5 plug for the original location, but those are easy to get.

    Oil filter adaptor plate-Sandwich adaptor Plate -Prosport Gauges available in M20X1.5

    http://prosportgauges.com/oil-filter-adaptor-plate.aspx

    From a Bradan post here is a pic of the oil filters. It looks like there is enough room to clock the sender out of the way.
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  10. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    #10 wbklink, Mar 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    When I had my Motor Mounts changed the dealer inadvertently put the old style 550 mounts in.

    They contacted me to come back in and have them changed over to the 575 mounts.

    When I got there the Rich handed me this Bulletin from Ferrari...

    cheers,

    Bill
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  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    #11 fatbillybob, Mar 11, 2012
    Bill interesting on that TSB that no mention is made of the oil sender proximity issue but vibration at speed. I destroyed Sark's used 575 motor mount to see how it was put together and look for an easy solution. Besides the age old rev the motor watch it move test, the design of the 575 mount is not bad. Based on my destruction of it my thinking is that the pads on the wings are the failsafe of the mount. I'm thinking that if the pads on the wings don't touch the mount metal base you are OK. The mounts will still work if they touch but they are ending their useful life. The winged pad is a nice warning device. What happens dynamically I'm not sure. I'm going to put some prusian blue on my mounts and see if it gets rubbed off by the pads. I think with the 575 mounts if is near impossible to break the sender off. I think there are better reasons to go with the oil filter sandwich or Canton oil filters which is to find a good high pressure aftermarket filter that is not $40bucks a filter. I like John's very slick Canton units.
     
  12. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    #12 wbklink, Mar 12, 2012
    To me it was interesting because, At 150 mph I did feel a slight vibration with the old mounts.

    I have not been able to test the new ones since it only showed up at 150, there was nothing until that speed.

    I'm interested to see if the vibration will be gone.

    cheers,

    Bill
     
  13. beachmk4

    beachmk4 Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2012
    260
    Florida
    #13 beachmk4, Mar 12, 2012
    Having not taken delivery of my 550 yet, my naive question is this: Is there any modifications necessary to install the 575 motor mounts?
     
  14. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #14 ferraridriver, Mar 12, 2012
    No, none
     
  15. Bertt

    Bertt Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2011
    277
    The Netherlands
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    Bert
    #15 Bertt, Mar 12, 2012
    Dear friends,

    Thanks for all your valuable comments. I am a bit more reassured that the sender/torsion bar clearance seems to be OK. Although what Dean says makes me think there might be more critical points to look at (such as the distance between the sump and the oil line on top of the steering rack). I'll try to dive into the car again later this week to see if I can assess that as well. Not sure if you can see that without having the car on a lift or having the undertray off...

    @166&456 : the car was actually approved in the APK, but the dealer (in Hilversum, you know the one) obviously did some visual checks while checking for the APK which I do appreciate. They did also find one ignition cable being pretty badly worn and arcing every now and then. That's going to be replaced later this week (relatively costly affair as the ignition cables come only in complete sets for each bank with all the bells and whistles attached to it). What I don't understand is why they say the motor mounts should be replaced. That was before I told them this was done just 5 months/400km ago which caught them a bit offguard as if they didn't check the condition of the mounts themselves (then they could have seen they are new.....). According to them the engine sits too low, so then they questioned whether the motor mounts were installed properly and if the right shims and spacers were used. I know for sure that new original spacers were used and as far as I can see all is installed properly... Anyway, as mentioned, the car goes into the workshop later this week again, so perhaps they can have another look, although it might be difficult for them to adjust their judgement....... If they still feel it's not OK, I'll probably seek for a second opinion with Forza Service and see what they think about it.

    Many thanks also for the suggestions on relocation of the oil pressure sender. Although not my immediate goal, I do see the benefits of that, such as Cribbj says: less danger of it being hit and less crud from the road being able to mess with the electrical contacts.

    Cheers,
    Bert
     

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