550 radiator question

Front panel comes off no problem I think 2 of the bolts just a bit harder to get but I have lots of tools. I don't think when I work. I just look at the job and start working. I can't remember on the fans but I'm 90% sure fans out radiator in is works. Ditto on fan relays. It is on my list too but just too lazy to do it when everything works.

 

Mybe post some pics of the conversion might motivate others to do it too.

 

Dave, member F456M did the shroud swap recently and he took the radiator out as detailed in his thread here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2016-modification-thread.509118/page-3 and it appears the shroud interferes with the lower mounting brackets of the radiator, but these can be trimmed slightly for clearance (post 60: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146804515/).

 

Hi Dave.

Finally I. An learn YOU something and not the opposite way around. Hehe

The shroud is through bolted through the radiator and oil radiator. To get the radiator out, you need to take the AC condenser/radiator off from the coolant radiator and to get that off you also need to take the steering oil cooler off from the condenser.... The good thing is that you don’t Need to detach the horses for the refrigerant or the steering oil. Just put the «away» for a few minutes. I put my old fans on to the 575 heat shroud. I regret it because the car can still get too hot even If it helped quite a lot with the 575 shroud. What was a bit unpractical was that when I recieved the 575 shroud, it was just the piece of metal, and the 575 shroud has holes for the air to flow better when driving fast because it actually covers the radiator completely. And these hole have rubber flappers on them so that when the fans are running then the small vacuum in front If the fans shut «tight» so all air go through the core and out behind the fans. It avoid the fans to suck «false air». This is VERY important to get on the new shroud. I made some own flappers as I was going to warm south of Europe the day after and had to put the car back together. The 550 shroud does not have these flappers. I also did a good job to seal the shroud to the radiator with rubber seals cut to fit. Now next summer when the heat comes back, I will put in a pair of 575 fans and wiring + relays. The fans seem to be possible to detach from the new shroud without taking everything out. The shroud have threads which the machine thread bolts screws into. Can you post how you do the wiring and relay location? Also post the result before and after? It seems like these radiators are not working very well anymore due to age. The real problem is that the hot air have no way to go so when the car is stationary, the radiator need seriously strong fans to replicate the car going at 35 mph. which seem to be fast enough to cool at all temps.

 

When I started racing my Z06 I overheated in in just a few laps. I've never driving a Mustang before but have just chosen it to be my next racecar. I got the warning lights on that in 8 laps. Usually for racing tintops the 1st weak spot we find is OEM cooling. I would think even the light tracking I have done in the 550 I would expose a cooling problem but I just haven't seen any. It is weird to me that people are seeing problems on the street.

 

I’m convinced it’s an air flow issue when stationary. On the track for 20 mins or so in 30C heat my car runs normal, coolant just over 190, however in stop and go traffic the coolant temp rises.

 

The 550 has about 80 degrees Celsius when running a constant 280 kph. The radiator cools very good as long as air is flowing through it at medium or high speed. Like I have written before. The air is trapped inside the engine compartment and that slows the speed of the air down. The radiator also blows the air backwards and down under the engine and not upwards where hot air normally would go. This is true because of the steep angle of the radiator. It makes it even more hot under the hood and that is not good at all. The Pro Car had huge louver vents in the hood. They are there for a reason. I have seen a lot of sports cars the last year and most of them have vents. The 599 also have vents which suck the air out when driving and can let the heat escape better when running slow. I wonder how I could make holes that would look good.....?! A bit afraid of damaging that clean hood.

 

Humm....I will have to take a look at that. I have some minor hood dents that I'm repairing now. My street 550 is on the racy side. I run 2 piece front rotors, race pads, custom valved moton double adjustable shocks, custom spring rates. I wonder how it would look with some hood vents since I'm painting my hood anyway?

 

I like your view on the case. I have been looking at many vents and here the other day, I noticed that an old Dino had three squared holes. A version of that could do the trick. The problem is that the 550/575 hood have curves everywhere and there are also braces on the underside to make the big hood rigid. There is also this «carpet» on the underside that also needs to be modified. So not really the easiest thing to do. If you have a hole on the hood, water from rain and when washing the car will probably be sparkes up by this carpet. I don’t know...

 

In an old thread Yelo 550, GS Johnson put some louvers in the hood of his 550.
page-11
There are some pics on pages 11-13 of the thread of the louvers he put in the hood.

 

I really think the issue is airflow through the radiator (fans/shroud). I don’t hear 575 owners complaining about high coolant temp in traffic and it has no additional vents. On really hot days (30C+) when my coolant temp creeps up to around 220F, if I open the hood and let the engine run I see no reduction in coolant temp, it only drops if I get the car moving, and then it drops quickly. I wonder if the fans loose some efficiency as they age. They do seem to draw more current and melt fuse board connectors as they age. I have a 575 shroud that I plan to instal this winter, I am also considering buying new fans, or possibly just the fan motors is available.

P.S. I am in Canada and have a US car, that’s why I speak of ambient temp in Celsius and coolant temp in Fahrenheit.

 

Ferrari made a number of subtle changes in the cooling system of the 575M to help with the overheating issues of the 550:

1. Changed the water pump impeller to a more efficient design
2. Changed the water pump pulley (reduced its diameter) so the pump spins faster and moves more coolant at lower rpm
3. Changed the fan shroud & fans to improve air flow

They "may" have reduced the temperature at which the fans turn on - this is only my opinion, however.

 

Dave- I feel for you. Really rough on your back.

 

It's why we love these cars, right Dave?

You don't really bond with a car until you've skinned knuckles, drawn blood, gotten burned, and had to sleep on a sleeping pad for a couple of nights, etc.

It helps to be a masochist too....

 

I had an inspection under the car a few days before I was doing the job just to prepare myself for the job to avoid a potential mental breakdown if not making it. I had booked so many appointments and had to rush to reach the last day of the Cannes boat show where I also had a meeting. So there were no room for mistakes during «wrench day». What I noticed is that the only way to get it done is to take lots of things apart, even the grill and big oil cooler fittings so I also had to replace the oil since 90% of the oil pours out when disconnecting the fittings on the oil cooler. Yes all this just to replace the fan shroud. I spent about 5 houres on the job also on two jack stands in my garage. But well worth it. If I had not done it, I could not have driven the car without turning on full heat and fan in south of Europe.

As Ryan (AVIMAX) points out above. When the car first start to get really hot, there is nothing else to do that getting the speed up. Mine is also like that. Coolant of 110-125 degrees C simple have very poor cooling effect and then the oil temp is going to well over 100 C and then the engine is so hot inside it just keep on being worse and worse. To turn off the engine in that condition is a seriously bad thing as it will 99% for sure start boiling after a minute or two since the exhaust is still 250-300 deg C which is much more than the coolant. In a real traffic jam where the tarmac is 50% warmer than the air, you are in deep ****. According to Ferrari of Modena, the head studs/bolts strech out so the headgaskets can take a lot of abuse, but when it boils, the gas and air in the coolant will no longer cool... So I feel that the car MUST get many upgrades in the cooling system regardless If it is overheating or not.

 

I had extreme overheating issues in a hot (but not really hot) day, especially when getting stuck in traffic. When I looked in the engine compartment, I noticed that the foam around the shroud, that David mentioned, was missing. So I went down to Lowes and got some foam with sticky tape. This ensures that the fans draw air in directly through the shroud and not around the sides.

Then I designed and built a wiring/relay/connector assembly to install relays at the front next to the fans. The relays on the switch board drive these external relays. When I first tested this, I noticed that the dome lights dimmed when the relays kicked in - never happened before. Also, the fans definitely ran harder. Now, I don't get the extreme water temperatures in traffic. I've had this setup in the car for 2 1/2 years now.

When driving at speed at any outside temperature, the water temp goes way down. So more air is blown through the radiator - makes sense. But I'm also thinking that the Bernoulli effect of air going by the side vents sucks air out of the engine compartment. Perhaps there need to be fans blowing air out of these outlets in addition to the radiator fans.

 

Hi Dave. I am happy that you managed to put the shroud in. More impressive that you made it without taking everything out. How you did that is hard to understand! Are the normal relays sending out + or - ? I guess +. My intention is to do just like what you do now, but at the same time have two manual remote switches so it is possible to run them individually if neccesary. I have a friend with an AC Cobra and he had overheating problems in Spain where it gets seriously hot during summer. He told me that if he switched the fans on at much lower coolant temps, the car did not overheat. It is worth a try... So a good idea is to make the wiring so that you can fit one or two switches inside the car later. This is easier on the new relays up front rather than fitting them on the small relays in the fuse box. (I tried this and it was not easy. Gave up. I also want to hook up a thin cable for one small yellow LED on the fan side of each new relay so you can keep an eye on the power going to the two fans. It could be good to let one fan run constantly too in some situations. My AC works ok, but not brilliant. Even if it is now fully charged with new refrigerant. But if I get the car up to 30-40 mph. the AC blows colder without doubt. So my conclusion is that the condenser is not cooled good enough. It should like on many other cars have one fan running constantly. I believe the first 456 non M was like that. That way, the coolant will also have a lower temp and cool the engine better . I think it will make the needle more stable.... Just my thoughts around the whole problem!! Please post before and after results and post some pictures along the way if you like. I am very interested in comparing your results to mine.

E

 

Ok. Here is a picture. The steam line goes uphill but goes also down on the top of the tank. I was a bit worried myself but there is a steady small amount of coolant going into the tank when I look with a mirror. So I assume it works well. I could not see any difference in the temp though. I hade some challenges to fit the fitting as no one wanted to weld on it. I screwed in a fitting in the aluminium tank but it is somewhat thin and was not possible to tighten without damaging the threads made in the tank. So I ended up making a Locktite 2-component high temp seal which works great. The thing with my car is that it develop so much heat that I have never experienced anything like it.... The car is only a good car If it is on the freeway If you know what I mean. I can’t believe how your car stays cool at 100 deg outside temps with that original heat shroud. Have you tested with an IR gun to see the tenps in and out of the radiator? My cooling fans run 95% of the time in stop and go city traffic even now with the 575 shroud and the outside temp is only 17-20 degrees here now. It is like one would assume the fans run just 75 % speed... As soon as the speed of the car goes up, the temp go down. So the radiator works brilliantly. It is just not cooled enough by the fans!
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