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550 Tubi exhaust

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by speedball, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    268
    Pasadena Area
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    Scot Anderson
    I know there's been a lot of threads regarding the pros and cons of different exhaust systems. I just ordered Tubi's for my 2000, 550 Maranello. Should have them in a week or so.... bought them new from HG Parts, near Stuttgart, Germany. They sell new pairs for about $ 1,000 less than any place I found in the US. Paid $ 2,199 US plus $200 for express Fed Ex shipping, and of course no tax.

    I'm aware of the resonance issue with some Tubi's but have faith (fingers crossed) this only applied to the earlier 550's. There doesn't appear to be much of a concenus on this forum one way or the other, seems some people love them, the others have issues... sort of 50/50.

    I'll post a new message in a couple of weeks when I get them on the car .... and let everyone know what I think of the tone, sound levels and resonance issue... at least as this applies to a year 2000 Maranello.

    One thing for certain ...... the stock exhaust is way too subdued .... I've had the car only two weeks ... and changing the exhaust is priority # 1.
     
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  3. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,273
    Switzerland (NW)
    Tubis for 550s are a mystery, some people only swear by the tube-only design, while some others are happy with the post-2002 cans, which are said to have eliminated the resonnance problem which was hardly bareable, headache-inducing recipe in the original pre-2002 design.
    A rep from Tubi-France even told me that the pre-2002 550 Tubis were replaced for free under warranty due to the resonnance problem.

    Would be great to post a video once you have the cans mounted on your car !

    For reference, this other thread http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2109&highlight=550+tubi+cwwhk
     
  4. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    Scot Anderson
    I'm hoping these will arrive via Fed Ex tomorrow ..... will be on the car within a few hours ...... I'll post a full report once I've had a chance to try them out.
     
  5. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    This is interesting. Doody's resonance with Tubis, as I recall, was due to a bad clamp or improperly clamped? Didn't know they redesigned them?

    Where is Manu to shed some light on this?

    --Dan
     
  6. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    shark - i heard it was a 2000 redesign, not 2002. are you certain of that?

    dan - the clamping was just someone's theory. not sure it was the case. maybe i just "got used to it" though i dunno.

    fwiw, i'm happy with it. it's not perfect, but it's WAY better than stock. i liked your fuchs, but not enough to switch - the tubi has a certain low growl that really does it for me.

    doody.
     
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  8. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    Hey Guys~
    Agree with Doodster, and I JUST hung up with Tubi, and they are shipping from Italy the first center section 550 to me. Should be here late next week. Since we provided the template, we get the first one!!! :)
     
  9. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    keep us posted on their center pipe solution. i'm intrigued.

    doody.
     
  10. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    268
    Pasadena Area
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    Scot Anderson
    Received my new tubi's today ... had them on the car about 3 hours later on my 2000, 550 (no hardware is included from tubi and they don't use the stock nuts and bolts). Only driven the car a few miles so far but here's what I think ... They are not everything I had hoped for, but far better than stock. First thing ..... to lay the "it's too noisy in the interior" crowd to rest ..... it's louder inside but not very much and absolutely not unreasonable .... can hear the radio at softer levels or have a conversation without a problem..... The biggest surprise (and disappointment for me) is the idle volume ... which is much louder than stock .... and a bit more than I care for, but then again I have become very used to the stock sound and volume ... I'd perfer the exhaust to be a bit stealthier sitting at a light ..... but roar to life when you jump on it. I expected a louder idle than stock ... but it's a lot louder ... and it does have a resonance at idle which is probably why it's so loud, but again .... this is only at idle ...... once you give them any amount of throttle this immediately goes away and the exhaust actually seems to quiet down quite a bit.

    I tried different rpm's looking for the "dreaded" resonance zones people have talked about .... never found this. At all speeds and rpm's it's fine .... only the idle is bothersome IMO. The tone is much better than stock but louder in all respects and of course it's hard to know how it really sounds from the drivers seat. I was hoping for a little more growling in the lower rpms (with full throttle) and a bit more shreak at the higher rpm's .... and if I were to stand outside of the car ... maybe I'm getting just this (I'll have to let a friend drive it so I can listen from afar) .... or then again, maybe this combination isn't possible with any exhaust.

    I wanted to give my impressions immediately after installing these ..... I'll probably have a different prespective in a week or so once I become used to the them ... and I'm sure as time goes by I'll grow to really like everything about tubi's. I'm glad I installed them and do feel it's a major improvement.

    Today's rating ..... 7 out of a 10. But I must qualify this by saying these are much better than stock.... which was too subdued for my taste. I'm also certain I'll probably raise my rating once I get used to them ... I'll update everyone again in a week or so.
     
  11. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    you shouldn't find any resonance of note in new 550 tubis. that's what they redesigned out of them.

    doody.
     
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  13. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    i too installed tubis on my 2001 maranello; not really that impressed, even though better than stock, it is louder at idle then smooths out when accelerating..this is the only issue i had with my car, did not sound as good as my daytona. It still doesn't.

    I cought my tubis on EBay, no resonance that I can tell..they were new...but how can you tell which one you have pre or post resonance?
     
  14. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    Doody ........

    Let's put it this way ...... last night I was in line at McDonalds drive up , idling two feet from the buildings 150 foot long straight wall ...... it was so loud ... so much so the people in the car in front of me stuck their heads out to see what was making all the noise behind them.

    Regarding resonance ..... call it what you will but it sure sounds like this to me at idle .... only at idle. Everything else about these is fine.

    Coachi .....

    Sounds like you and I are on the same page. I'll bet you have the newer ones because your experience is exactly the same as mine. I think the older ones had the "idle" issues at 2500 RPM .... which would have been maddening. If you send me the tag numbers on your tubi's I'll compare these to mine and report back. What did you pay for yours on e-bay? Got mine from HG in Germany, paid $ 2199 plus $ 200 shipping.

    Now that I've replaced the stock exhaust ... which was priorty #1, I would like to hear a Fuchs and Capristo exhaust just for comparison..... anyone in the Los Angeles area have these on a 1999 -2001 550? Would love to hear yours. I debated for a month which system to buy .... heard good and bad about all of them ... went with Tubi because it seemed to be the most popular one .... seems 30% of the cars for sale on E-bay have tubi's ... never seen one car on e-bay with any other brand, other than stock..... If the Fuchs or Capristos have a much better sound and a softer idle ... I would consider changing again.... and selling my tubi's on e-bay ....... May change my mind in a month and grow to really like these.... who knows..... I'll update everyone in a few weeks .......
     
  15. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

    Nov 17, 2003
    1,391
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    Don Jackson II
    Could you post video at Idle then at wpeed so we can hear what you're saying?
     
  16. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    268
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    Scot Anderson
    I'll try to do this ....... not sure how to post a video/audio clip on this forum ..... can someone tell how to do this ... or must I upload this to another site, then provide a link for you to retrieve it?
     
  17. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    speedball - mine is definitely not that loud. it's not quiet, but it's not that loud. as to the resonance issue, i can only speak to headache-causing resonance in the cabin - very low and loud and annoying.

    definitely check out the fuchs. maranelloman (TX) and bobafett (NoCal) have it. i liked it, but not enough to swap my tubi (given the hassle and expense involved).

    fwiw,
    doody.
     
  18. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    Scot Anderson
    NO .... this is definately not anything close to a headache inducing issue ..... I'm an old car nut from day one ... I also drive a 1968 Hemi Roadrunner that IMO could be louder ... and my Roadrunner is already pretty "loud" as expected with a 60's mussle car .... The whole car shakes and forget about listening to the radio (except at idle) .... but the idle rumble in roadrunner sounds really good (unlike my Ferrari) .... so it's not an issue of me being 50 years old and unable to handle some noise.

    On a Ferrari I'd think the idle shouldn't be so in your face and it's not like some great low rumble tone ... more like a 1000 RPM constant hum. It's something I can definately live with ..... and will most likely get used to ... after all it hasn't been 24 hours since I put these on my car.

    maranelloman (TX) and bobafett (NoCal) both sent me posts about their fuchs systems long before I bought my Tubi's ... and both had good things to say about them .... Bodafett offered a listen but is 400 miles away .... The fuchs are $ 1,000 more so I had to take this into consideration as well.

    Doody ..... Since you heard the fuchs in comparison to your tubi's ... how would you rate the difference in idle volume? How different do they sound at speed ... and at full rev? I'm still waiting to hear my Tubi's from outside the car.
     
  19. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    here's my auditory recall, which i wouldn't necessarily bet money on the accuracy thereof.

    at idle and at low revs, the tubi has a much more mellifluous, throaty noise to it. it's not as throaty as i'd like in that it's not quite as "open" as i want - but it's pretty damn throaty. a few throttle blips at a stop light and people nearby can't but wonder whether that shark is likely to eat their young.

    bobafett's cargraphic (fuchs) was "tighter". it felt more "controlled" - not quite as "wild" and burble-y. it was distinctly different to my ears.

    at higher RPMs though, as you've noticed, the tubi sort of mellows out and gets much quieter and less noticeable. not unlike how the stock exhaust strives for anonymity above 2500RPM or so.

    in contrast, the fuchs maintained, imo, more of an edgy note to it at higher and high RPMs, which i definitely dug. but it wasn't more intrusive per se.

    i get the impression (and it's just my personal opinion - feel free to disagree everybody) that the tubi guys built an exhaust to "improve upon" the stock setup. the fuchs guys built the exhaust they wanted to build - and to hell with the stock noises and noise curves.

    i'm curious to try the stebro central tunnel; and now the new tubi central tunnel too. but i'm not so sure i want to pour more money into my stupid exhaust system either :).

    it'd be way great to get a few cars together in one place and record them all. although recordings of exhausts are notoriously crapola, if you had N recordings all done in the same place at the same general time, your brain could "do the math" if one of the recordings was an exhaust you knew well. but i haven't been able to find anybody in the new england area with a 550 fuchs.

    doody.
     
  20. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    austin, tx
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    Mark
    Maranelloman and I both installed the Stebro Center Crosspipe/Resonator in front of the Cargraphics rear mufflers and the difference was amazing.

    Eliminating the center muffler/resonator really changed the character of the sound making it much "snarlier" and "sharper". Now they sound like proper V12's, and I really think mine's actually a little quieter at idle. Cruising with the windows up it is not the least bit annoying, much quieter than my Tubi'd 348. But with the throttle open and the window's open.... I think Dave said it best... "mama mia" ....

    Search this board for reviews, but I think it may be what you're looking for.

    Mark McKenzie
     
  21. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    Scot Anderson
    Redcar1 .......

    Thanks for your opinions .......

    Could you tell me where you purchased yours and how much your system cost plus the center pipes ...

    Your description is exactly what I'm looking for....... I don't necessary want a hot rod .... or something that's always in your face ..... but when I choose to throttle up I want that famous Ferrari V-12 sound .... and when fully throttled I don't have any problem with higher sound levels as long as this doesn't attract every cop within three blocks.

    How would you rate the sound volume compared to stock..... 25%, 50%, 100%, 200% louder? I'd say my tubi's are 3 times louder than stock at idle ... and at most twice as loud at all other RPM's.
     
  22. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Redcar: interesting points about it being sharper and snarlier. This is exactly what I was looking for. I was totally set on Stebro, until Rich brought up the Tubi center.

    I will have to see it and then take a stab in the dark. Wonder if anyone here has a stebro?

    --Dan
     
  23. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Mark
    The previous owner of my car had installed the cargraphics rear mufflers so I didn't have a direct comparison to stock, but listening to others it had more than twice the rumble at idle, but really disappointed at speed.

    The Stebro center section is nothing more than a custom made section of crossover piping with no muffler or baffling. I would think the Tubi should be pretty much the same design, and sound alike. I think another 550 Owner here in Austin had the section made at local muffler shop, there's not much to it.

    Mark McKenzie
     
  24. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    Scot Anderson
    Update ....... I'm noticing the idle volume less and enjoying the overall tone of this exhaust much more ....

    I do feel I've lost some lowend power .... the car is still very powerful .... but IMO it's enough of a loss that I notice it .... nothing serious. I don't have many opportunities to enjoy the gains these are supposed to give back at the high end ...... so this lowend loss bothers me a bit.

    Interesting question ..... I've thought about modifing my tubi's by removing the vacum operated baffle on the inner exhaust tip of the stock mufflers and welding these on my tubi's .... to in effect replicate the factory back pressure setup of the stock mufflers. This could be easily done in a way that would keep the original tubi tips and tip alignment ..... IMO this might restore the power loss on the lowend ... and may also solve the idle noise resonance/volume issues I discussed above .... but then again..... because the tubi's are freer flowing mufflers this may not give me the desired result ...... Has anyone done or considered this?

    I welcome all input/comments.
     
  25. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    I paid 1800 for mine on EBay, got a good deal, and that included delivery. I think again they are much better than the silent heavy stock mufflers but do not sound nearly as mean as d aytona. I will have to get under the car to find numbers, etc...I am sure they are the newer ones, no resonance that I can detect.
     
  26. speedball

    speedball Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
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    Scot Anderson
    Coachi.......

    Let me know and we'll swap tubi ID tag numbers ........ but it does sound like yours are the newer one ...... based on your discription of how they sound. Never heard older ones ... but there sure was a lot of bad remarks about these on this forum.....

    Yes... you did get a good deal on e-bay........ who did you buy these from? Private party or a dealer? New or used? I looked on e-bay since buying my 550 ... but never saw any for my car....... so I went with HG in Germany .... $2199 plus $ 200 shipping. Next best price I found was more like $ 2,900.
     
  27. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    where are these "tag numbers" speedball?

    doody.
     
  28. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    Doody-

    Each Tubi has it's own "Serial" number per se'. Each Tubi USA invoice I get has the s/n's posted on the invoice directly below the Muffler.

    They are located on a little tab welded onto the muffler.

    R
     

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