575 manual watch, Europe | Page 23 | FerrariChat

575 manual watch, Europe

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Themaven, Aug 1, 2015.

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  1. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan

    I have never driven a 550. I prefer the 575 if I'm honest and was quite happy with an F1. So to that end I'd never driven a 550 simply because it was manual.

    What I never expected was how well the manual 575 drove. What I liked was how light the clutch was and the general comfort of the car. This was an FHP car so in that respect I was surprised.

    I've been told the 550 has a heavier clutch and is firmer generally. I guess it's time I found out for myself.

    I do prefer the interior of the 575 though.
     
  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    550 and 575M have identical clutches, even on the F1 versions, except for T/O bearing seals. Same clutch used on the 456 through early 612s.
     
    21ATS likes this.
  3. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
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    Darius
    Engine, clutch..there's another reason the 612 belongs on this board... :)

    21ATS, my standard 550 is firmer than my FHP 575. I remember Taz explaining one fundamental reason, to do with metal spring or shock mounts (?) in the 550, which help turn in, but have no give. Sorry for the very technical explanation. 575 has noticeably more power and torque. They are not different versions of the same car, even if they are similar.
     
    21ATS likes this.
  4. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Well I made an offer today on the Manual 575 at Furlonger. So lets see what happens.

    I really did like the way the car drove.
     
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  5. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 15, 2012
    7,698
    Newbury, Berkshire, England
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    John
    Not Europe, but this one just sold in California for $215K:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-ferrari-575-maranello-6/?utm_source=transactionalemail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bat_model_notification

    2003 Ferrari 575M Maranello 6-Speed Manual
    Chassis: ZFFBV55A330133205
    31,035 miles
    Daytona Seats
    Modular 19" wheels
    6-Speed Manual Transmission
    Grigio Titanio over Black Leather
    Good Service History File
    Last Major Belt Service at 29k miles in 2016
    Factory Recommended Service in August 2018
     
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  6. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 15, 2012
    7,698
    Newbury, Berkshire, England
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    John
    And?
     
  7. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    It went no further than the offer. I'm uncomfortable paying more than £110K for one these with almost 58,000 miles on it. It needs some cosmetic work including door seals and window seals but fundamentally I just didn't feel comfortable about it.

    That was compounded when I discovered this one sold about 10 months ago from this dealer for £120K having been advertised for some time at £150K in a more buoyant market. A nice sub 20,000 mile example. http://www.theferraricentre.com/previously-sold/6027194-ferrari-575-m-manual/

    So I was quite happy to wait until next year. Then this popped up:-

    https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2018-09-22/cars/ref-17-2002-ferrari-575m/

    Which is my personal perfect colour combo. It's discussed in this thread from two years ago where it last sold for £134,400 at auction then immediately popped up for sale at JD classics :- https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/verde-zeltweg-f1-at-rm-london.530400/ Two years on the estimate is now somewhat lower.

    It would be interesting to know if this car has anything to do with the recent administration of JD Classics. It could be a distressed sale.

    If I buy now, I need to finance about half of what I'm buying, getting finance to buy at auction isn't easy it seems. I've drawn a blank so far, with the one company that does off this having said they call me to discuss then hearing nothing despite numerous requests. I'm also very uncomfortable about buying at auction. what is effectively a trade sale with no comeback whatsoever at what is likely to be retail or even more than retail money.

    So I think I'll wait until next year when I can buy one outright without the need for finance. If I'm lucky prices may have dropped. If not, there's no loss.
     
  8. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
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    Darius
    There is a loss if you wait til next year. A year less of your life owning and driving a 575. Unquantifiable! Meanwhile you just missed out on the way Ferrari driving summer the UK has ever had, possibly.. If you find the right car, don't delay!
     
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  9. ewright

    ewright Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    598
    I just clicked on that link, and good lord that car is beautiful! I would buy this in a heartbeat if it was in the states. My god Ive never seen a more beautiful modern V12 Ferrari.
     
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  10. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
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    Barry K
    As I have posted before the market keeps coming your way, and nothing obvious will reverse that trend in the near term. 575 manuals got into bubble territory much like other "modern classic" Ferrari's and the hangover will take time. As it is late September, I wouldn't lose much sleep over "the loss" of owning your car in a garage over winter, and try next year. Chances are you may still be looking at the same car for less.
     
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  11. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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  12. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    The market has eased, but asking prices seem to be taking their time to catch up.

    This car has recently moved from Speedmasters (it's been for sale for about a year) where it was initially advertised for GBP 185K reducing to 165K

    Now at Furlonger at GBP160k

    https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/ferrari/575/ferrari-575-m-maranello-manual/9382949

    What's it worth? It's worth what someone will pay for it but I don't subscribe to the idea that a manual is valued at around a 100% premium compared to the equivalent car if it were an F1.

    What is a 44K mile 575M F1 worth at this spec? Say GBP 80K?

    I agree that a premium exist for manual, but not that much. Others may feel different, that's what makes the market.
     
  13. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
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    Barry K
    I remember when F1 prices were around here or maybe a littler lower a few years ago, a RHD manual was about 30-40k over. I think the F1 market is bigger and more liquid and so has adjusted lower more quickly than the manual market. It will take while for seller expectations to catch up with reality as they start looking at lower offers or other cut asking prices.
    As I have said before here, the market keeps coming your way, just not obvious when it will stop. For a slightly related data point, my UK 550 with 28k miles cost me £103k 18 months ago, probably low-80s now.

    Good luck with the search, you have the patience of a saint.
     
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  14. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Is very easy to be patient when you can't afford something!

    I can't afford GBP 140k+ with maintenance costs on top. It's just too much on a third car as I want to keep my other cars. So I either need to save a bit more or wait for prices to ease further.

    The reality is a bit of both makes sense.
     
  15. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Oct 15, 2012
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    What is your budget?
     
  16. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Realistically £80K I could probably get into an F1 now, but I'm in no rush. I could stretch to £100K but it would need to be something special and it would consume the "problem fund" which you always need to address the initial niggles when you first buy something.

    I also keep looking at 550's being all manual - but I've always preferred the 575.

    I also want to see the other side of Brexit, whilst we do very little business in the EU, we buy in USD and the exchange rate has been killing us since the referendum.

    All in all it just makes sense to wait, as I want to buy something to keep, so another 12-18 months is no biggie.
     
  17. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Oct 15, 2012
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    I would be very surprised if you will ever get a decent 575 manual for under £100K, or indeed anything approaching £100K, let alone £80K. If I were in your shoes, I would settle for either a 575 F1 or a 550, my preference being for the latter.
     
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  18. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    I agree, it doesn't seem likely at present. So I'll keep saving and boost the budget a little.
     
  19. 21ATS

    21ATS Formula Junior

    Dec 10, 2016
    988
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    Alan
    It's certainly looks super clean.

    It's been many years since I was able to fit in bucket seats! I'm more a comfort GT seat kind of guy. (read middle aged spread).
     
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  20. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
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    Darius
    Very nice.

    I think the race seats came in S, M and L sizes.

    Is that a OEM exhaust? And what's going on the bodywork immediately above the tailpipes?
     
  21. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
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    Darius
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,986
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Darius- That HGTC came from the owner of Mov-It Brakes a while back. He sold her to a British FChatter. That is the ultimate 575M in the current market.

    All the normal mistakes in the technical description: bigger brakes, weight reduction, CF instrument panel mischaracterization (instrument panel chip allowed choice of ceramic or normal brakes is what the brochure meant, like the F430).
     
  23. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    I think the standard 575 got the exact same brakes as the 550, and they felt overly underdimensioned with the added power (which seemed to be more than the quoted 30 hp difference); I upgraded my 575 to larger and grooved Brembo brakes.
    The HGTC came with the larger CCM brakes as part of the package.
     

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