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575 transmission swap, F1 replaced with Manual 6-Speed

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by toggie, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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  2. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    wow

    how much ????
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Yup, I heard someone was doing one for sure. Jason in the 612 forum mentioned it, I think.

    No need to swap transmissions, though, since the three pedals and F1 Ferraris use the same transaxle.
     
  4. MogulBoy

    MogulBoy Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2004
    939
    Devon
    Those images don't really shout 'completed' ;) but kudos/chapeau to Exoticars USA if they have indeed sucessfully completed the conversion and re-trim. Hopefully we'll see more in due course.
     
  5. SandydeG

    SandydeG Formula Junior

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Hi Taz, I wrote up that little blog post and picked the photos. You are absolutely correct, it was not a transmission swap but change of transmission controls. You know I married into Ferrari repair, I do my best but sometimes inaccurate. The client is very happy and we do have a 612 client starting to explore converting his Scaglietti. Each to their own, some people love the paddle shift, it doesn't matter as long as they are driven, I say! - Sandy
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Sandy- Affirmative, the de Groot family name is well known in Maserati and Ferrari circles and I followed the build of your Maserati hot rod. There was never any doubt the conversion could be done by a competent shop, the biggest problem was finding all the parts. Sounds like you solved that one. Number that can be done will be limited because of the parts issue, but if you can make your own, less of a problem. Would love to see some photos of her completed.
     
  7. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
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    Hello,
    By reading in between the lines I take converting a 599 is also doable, correct?
    Have you done one yet?
    Tks, regards,
    Alfredo
     
  8. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
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    Eric Sanders with GT engineering is doing one right now in Los Angeles...

    I'll see if I can get some pictures from him.


    cheers
     
  9. SandydeG

    SandydeG Formula Junior

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    #9 SandydeG, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are some more photos, with the transmission before and after, new pedal set (that dangling wire was later tidied up), the finished console and the little adaptor gizmo Wil designed/machined. We would be happy to explore converting other Ferraris in this manner. As mentioned, parts are a limiting factor but they are available through different sources. Wil's amendment to my original post 'it's what your right foot is for'. :)
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  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 tazandjan, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sandy- So the big question would be: What is an approximate price range?

    Suppose I need to update my figures on 575Ms with three pedals from 246 to 247 now, except I know one HGTC 3 pedal was destroyed in Europe. Would have been nice to get the parts off that one.

    Is Wil your brother?
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  11. SandydeG

    SandydeG Formula Junior

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    lol Wil is my husband. He'll join this conversation soon and I will step out...

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Sandy- Well, I certainly got that one wrong. Thanks for chiming in with details on the 575M.
     
  13. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,132
    This is a timely thread as there is one running in the 612 section.

    Sandy can you confirm what if anything needed to be done with regards the engine ecu and its links to the F1 system.
     
  14. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Nov 19, 2003
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    Hi, This is Wil. Hi to you Taz, haven't talked to you in a while. Thanks for the compliments.

    We were away at the Jersey shore for a few days without a computer so sorry for the delayed response.

    The car's owner asked us for a cost estimate, which we provided, but first we had to do a feasibility study. We poked around and did some disassembly to make comparisons between a 2 pedal 575 and a 3 pedal 550 (mine) and unfortunately never took enough before-photos of the 575 interior.

    The estimate was for about $27,00 but we told the owner we might need more parts and that they would be additional. The final bill for parts and labor was about $31,000.

    The Final product looks like it came from the factory. We even replaced the plastic steering column covers for ones without paddle openings. The stainless steel shift lever gate fits right in the console opening that the F1 reverse lever used to sit in. No leather work was involved and I don't recall anything being cut except the hole for the shift tower in the heat-shield.

    We could have used the original transaxle, they ARE basically the same, and only replaced the F1 shift-box from the side with a stick-shift-box. However, we already had so much disconnected under the car for the shift-lever installation that we figured it was easier to just swap transaxles since we had to buy a complete manual transaxle to get the stick-shift equipment anyway.

    We have someone interested in doing the same conversion on a 612 and it should work on a 599 also since about 18 of them were built with stick-shift at the factory according to what I read.
     
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  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Wil- Way more 599s than that, but no firm number. Some swear 30, some 45, and I actually think it might have been higher. We ran Ferrari out of some NOS FHP parts by FChatters converting non-FHP 575s, like the rear anti-roll bar, and the same thing could happen on the manual shifter parts. If Ferrari actually made 10% more than they needed, that would be about 25 extra sets of parts for the 575, but maybe only about 5-10 for the 599. 612 numbers should have been about the same as for the 575M (5-10% of 3025 for 150-300 three pedals and 15-30 sets of spares).

    That $31K sounds very reasonable, especially with a new or used transaxle. I think the increased value would be somewhere in the $30-75K region for a conversion. You can probably sell the F1 transaxle and parts and recoup some of the costs unless the owner wants to hang on to them.

    Anyway, great job and the first I have seen on a V12. Was done on a 360, but nearly 30% were 3 pedals, over 4700, so almost not worth it.
     
  16. MogulBoy

    MogulBoy Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2004
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    #16 MogulBoy, Aug 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Will, Could you tell us if you were able to source a 575M manual transaxle or if you fitted a 550 transaxle? Just curious as Sandy mentioned that you had to machine some parts and we saw a photo of something that looks like an adaptor/manifold for the transmission oil cooler hoses.

    What about the electronics? Did you source a suitable Control Unit Ignition (ECU) from a manual 575M - no mean feat as these appear to assembly number sensitive and region-specific (which may be less sensitive) and then simply proceed to disconnect the F1 Gearbox Transmission Control Station (TCU) and insert the $5.00 plastic blanking plug in its place? (e.g. part No.18)
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  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    550 transaxle is different from the 575M transaxle with dual instead of triple cone synchronizers on the lower gears and other lighter duty componentry. A 575M with a 550 transaxle might be a hard sell all around.
     
  18. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    As stated above, we installed a complete 550 transaxle. We had to buy a complete trans and since the original trans was 90% disconnected, due to related conversion work, we just swapped the entire units. We could also have swapped just the side-mounted shift boxes. This was the first conversion. On the next one we may just swap the shift boxes.

    New stick-shift specific ECUs were installed. Several electronic issues regarding engine-starting and dash displays had to be resolved and, as we had predicted, they were the most challenging part of the conversion but we ironed everything out.

    All of the F1 system components were removed except the wiring harnesses which were neatly rolled up and hidden away in the car in case anyone ever wants to reverse the conversion.
     
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  19. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Well, we still have the 575 trans and I have other ideas I'm working on.
     
  20. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie
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    That car now went up 100.000dollars :)
     
  21. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    you've given me hope Wil. Subscribed to this thread. Hopefully we see more converted cars flood the market soon! Do you think the costs will be similar for a 599?
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Wil- Yup, you might want to rethink that one the next time around. I thought you had a 575M manual transaxle, but they are really rare. Now that the swap is done, it would not be that big a deal to put the 575M transaxle back in. Not much different from putting in a new clutch, since many pros just remove the transaxle instead of sliding it back for a clutch job.
     
  23. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Yeah, the next 599 that goes up on a lift here will get extra attention paid to the transaxle and related systems but from what I know now, the price should be similar.
     
  24. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Agreed.

    That's the problem with estimating a job like this. Once you've given an estimate people tend to take it as a price quote and you've got to hustle. We came out of the job OK but we couldn't know that until we were done. The second conversion will be different.
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Wil- I think you did a great job, especially for that price.
     

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