575M With No Records | FerrariChat

575M With No Records

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by JLuce, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. JLuce

    JLuce Karting

    Feb 12, 2012
    73
    #1 JLuce, Feb 19, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
    I need some advice - I took a 2002 575M with 6800 miles to have a PPI. I had previously asked the dealer for the service records - no records. I asked for the owner's manual - no manual. I asked for the pouch - no pouch. I asked for the tool kit - no tool kit. In response to my trepidation, the dealer produced a CarFax Report the next time I visited. It was interesting, but not as interesting as the AutoCheck.com report I subsequently obtained, which showed that the car had started out in Puerto Rico (looks like it was there with one owner for five years), then had a reported accident in 2006, then was brought to Florida to be auctioned (it was in the auction house four times in 9 months (just a few miles were put on the car between auction visits) and appears to have been finally sold to an owner who held it for three years. Somehow or another (maybe through trade-in?), the car made its way to the dealer in August, 2011 where it is today. The report does not indicate if the accident was a collision, vandalism or break-in attempt. The guys doing the PPI thoroughly inspected the car and cannot find any evidence of any body damage. They did, however, notice some overspray on the front cross member immediately behind the front bumper and advised that the front bumper had been repainted, which is not uncommon. The clutch wear is 72% (seemed a bit unusual for a car that only has 6,800 miles on it?), the power steering hose(s) leaks at the reservoir, the tire pressure sensors are shot on all four wheels and the passenger door window assembly rattles when the door is closed (maybe someone broke the window out and damaged the system, hence the "accident report?"). Because there are no records, I don't know if the timing belt or tensioner bearings have ever been replaced or, for that matter, if the car's fluids were ever changed. On the plus side, the dealer has all three key fobs, the leak down test showed that the cylinders are in very good shape, the tires are new and the car has a very clean appearance. The dealer is asking $105K. The Market Market Letter Asking Price Index suggests an asking price of $100K. There is at least $10K of work that needs to done. What I don't know is how much the price should be reasonably discounted to reflect no records, unknown accident circumstances, no manual, no pouch, no tools, etc. I plan to make an offer Monday afternoon. Can anyone opine? Many thanks to all those who have provided great advice to get me this far!
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,665
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    #2 greyboxer, Feb 19, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
    1 - have you checked the accuracy of the index to real current ads - they may tell another story for the selling price

    2 - car obviously needs a full cambelt service & hose

    3 - clutch might be normally fitted by a dealer to conclude the sale but you might find a year still in it ie til the next service

    4 - a lot of 575 do not have working tpms

    5 - tools are nice but useless and a few hundred bucks

    6 - books are nice but not critical and a few hundred bucks

    I think you need to be sure you are going to keep it for a couple of years and then compare to real dealer prices before contemplating deductions

    And bear in mind the vendor is probably also reading this thread

    (PS a quick look on Ebay suggests 105 may be way too high with perfect history - there are cars starting at 80 ! - have you looked at any of them ?)
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,167
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    J- That sounds like an $80K car, not a $100K car. The low mileage appears to be the only thing it has going for it. Most F1 clutches need replacing somewhere near 70% wear.

    At auction, this sounds like a $70K car.

    Do you have more details like color and options?
     
  4. Thackray

    Thackray Karting

    Aug 29, 2010
    100
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Philip Thackray
    JLuce,

    Did your PPI guy check out the interior leather? With that history and locations (PR, Fla), I would expect the leather around the base of the windshield to be pulling back (at least). Other leather areas are also easily damaged from the sun on 550's and 575M's. To properly repair the dash leather pull back problem costs between $2500 and $3500.

    Good luck!

    Phil
     
  5. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    As a reference, Continental FM in Hinsdale (Chicago) has an F1 575 for $98k. I think the mileage is comparable. You can see the comp n their website.

    I have bought two cars from them, including my 575, and have nothing but positive reports. No affiliation. Just a market price point.

    Philip
     
  6. JLuce

    JLuce Karting

    Feb 12, 2012
    73
    Thanks to all who responded. I did contemplate that the dealer may be reading, too. I'll try to hit the questions as they were asked. Color is Rossa Corsa on beige. Installed options, as described by the dealer, are as follows: Traction Control, Rear Wheel Drive, Locking/Limited Slip Differential, Tires - Front Performance, Tires - Rear Performance, Aluminum Wheels, 4-Wheel Disc Brakes, Power Steering, Fog Lamps, Heated Mirrors, Power Mirror(S), Privacy Glass, Intermittent Wipers, Variable Speed Intermittent Wipers, Power Driver Seat, Power Passenger Seat, Leather Seats, Adjustable Steering Wheel, Power Steering Wheel, Power Windows, Keyless Entry, Power Door Locks, Remote Trunk Release, Rear Defrost, Cassette, Cd Changer, Cd Player and Premium Sound System. Leather was checked. In remarkably good condition although the driver's seat was dyed (did such a good job that I didn't notice it - PPI guys discovered that one). No other leather issues. Will look at the Hinsdal comp momentarily. Has anyone had or heard of any issues with the hydraulic pump that controls shifting going out? I was warned by a 550 owner that they always go and generally do so around 15K miles. We were talking about F1 v. gate. He said that repair is about a $16K undertaking . . .
     
  7. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,665
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    That sounds like a completely standard car (apart from the CD changer & sound....)

    And your friend is talking absolute rubbish about the hydraulics and if you (or he) don't believe me see if you can find any threads here suggesting its common
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,167
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    J- The 550 owner was blowing smoke. Change the F1 relay regularly and the pump motor will likely last as long as you have the car.

    All the options you listed are standard equipment. Read through the 575 Serial Number vs Assembly Numbers thread backwards. Most 575M questions, like options, are answered in that thread.
     
  9. Parkplace

    Parkplace Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2010
    542
    Fort Lauderdale
    Full Name:
    Kevin Buckley
    can you say - I pass?

    sounds easy enough to me - trust me the market for that car just got very small & after you pay sales tax it gets even worse for you -

    look at your own questions and know the next guy will ask the same...

    was just offered a 575 in Salt Lake - fresh from a meeting with a guard rail - no frame damage - you would be better off with that car for 25k.....
     
  10. Parkplace

    Parkplace Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2010
    542
    Fort Lauderdale
    Full Name:
    Kevin Buckley
    and if I am not mistaken that car has been for sale for 6 months - if that tells you anything..
     
  11. JLuce

    JLuce Karting

    Feb 12, 2012
    73
    Thanks, guys - appreciate the honest feedback.
     
  12. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Yes, about six months. They had three. Two F1s and a manual (which I bought). They now have one left. Any of the franchise dealers aren't going to be cheap, but it doesn't strike me as out of line. Or, am I wrong?
    Philip
     
  13. JLuce

    JLuce Karting

    Feb 12, 2012
    73
    From what I've been able to tell, that seems like market pricing.
     
  14. Parkplace

    Parkplace Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2010
    542
    Fort Lauderdale
    Full Name:
    Kevin Buckley
    cant speak to pricing on F1 575s as I havent followed them, there is much more finite number of gated 575s and seem to sell quickly though there is one in Chicago that has been on & off the market for 3 months.

    I have found that cars that sit on the market do so for one reason or another,

    desirable 550s and gated 575s rarely see the market for long as there is solid demand for well priced cars with history and in desirable color combinations.

    Without mentioning specific cars I can think of six 550s that lanquish on the market month after month. In contrast the 575 Phil T bought in Chicago and the 550 I bought in Greensboro were each on the market for less than a week.

    Just keep your powder dry, be patient & know what to do when you think you found the one for you.
     
  15. JLuce

    JLuce Karting

    Feb 12, 2012
    73
    Thanks, Kevin. Solid advice.
     

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