599 4 point harness install and track wheel choices? | FerrariChat

599 4 point harness install and track wheel choices?

Discussion in '612/599' started by pwjj2000, Apr 14, 2023.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I have a 2010 599 HGTE that I HPDE/track for pleasure. Would like to install a 4 point harness for increased safety and so that I can use a HANS device. Already had one total front tire failure that ended up ok with only tire and wheel damage, but it was at slower speed and in a fortunate place on the track. Main straight speed and less run off would probably have been a different story.
    The 4 point harness was never offered in North American 599's to my knowledge. Does anyone know if the top attachment points behind the luggage shelf back panel were installed in all 599's and were simply never used and covered over in NA versions?
    Anyone have any experience in installing a 4 point harness in a US car and what's involved?

    Also getting a set of track wheels to save the expensive and hard to get HGTE wheels. Have found stock 599 pentagram wheels (19'F/20"R) or Monolithic Challenge (all 20") wheels. Which are better strength wise: stock, Monolithic Challenge, HGTE? HGTE's are 1/2" wider in front but I don't think that's a big factor for non-competitive tracking? Could obtain another set of HGTE's if really the best choice.
    Any advice appreciated!
     
    Makuono likes this.
  2. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    9,497
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    There is at least one and I think a couple of threads with a lot of harness and roll bar details. Search in this section should help find them.

    On wheels, I would consider the GTO wheels or there are some others that look very similar but aren't Ferrari branded so less expensive. The GTO wheels are a bit wider as well so your rubber choices are better. If I didn't go GTO wheels, or wanted Ferrari wheels, I would look at the Challenge style wheels. They were used on a lot of different cars so they are reasonably priced and can be relatively easily replaced if needed.
     
  3. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Thanks, SkidKid, I will do a more comprehensive search on the harness question. I have found some Challenge wheels, but had seen somewhere on a forum that being cast aluminum Challenge wheels were not as strong as the HGTE's. Not sure about stock pentagrams relative strength. Might have been George Vosburgh? And perhaps not a significant difference or concern between the 3.
    Tazandjan, might you have any insight on this?
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,063
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The HGTE wheels are wider in front (8.5"), stronger and lighter weight. The GTO wheels are better all around (wider, stronger, lighter), but both are expensive. Here are the details on the wheels in case you want to look for aftermarket alternatives. GTO wheels are actually easier to find than the HGTEs, although the HGTE manufacturer does make effectively the same wheels for sale to the general public, just not in the same finish.

    599/HGTE/SA Aperta


    Five Spoke F 19”, R 20”, 5 X 114.3 mm

    Front 8J X 19 ET 43.5 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 63.8 mm

    Challenge Monolithic 20”, 5 X 114.3 mm

    Front 8J X 20 ET 43.5 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 63.8 mm

    HGTE/SA Aperta Five Spoke 20”, 5 X 114.3 mm

    Front 8.5J X 20 ET 40 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 63.8 mm


    599 GTO


    Five V/Ten Spoke 20”, 5 X 114.3 mm

    Front 9.5J x 20” ET 38.1 mm, Rear 11.5J x 20” ET 63.8 mm
     
    Skidkid and Makuono like this.
  5. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Thank you Taz. Appreciate the info. I have just found and purchased a set of HGTE wheels but now think I’ll save them to ensure I have a complete undamaged set for if and when I sell the car. And find a set of GTO wheels for the track. I will search for threads on the 4 pt harness install, but if you have any thoughts on that I’d love to hear them. Thanks again.
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,649
    socal
    4 pt is barely better than 3 only if you use the schroth 4t ASM harness. The ASM harness has anti submarine effects by a stitched piece that breaks on impact to give you 3 piece belt effects. I don’t think that enhances Hans function.

    imo the best way to go is 6 pt setup climber or parachute style. This will give you complete Hans function and anti submarine effects. Make sure your seat is compatible with a harness. It is extremely difficult to make a dual use car safer by adding parts. The oem safety is a system not a 3 pt belt and not an airbag. It is all the stuff crumple zones, ballistic tensioners etc etc.
     
    pwjj2000 and Skidkid like this.
  7. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 7, 2010
    1,893
    South Germany
    Full Name:
    Daniel

    I have a complete set GTO Wheels for sale, check the sales section.
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1-set-original-ferrari-599-gto-wheels-with-michelin-pss-like-new.674634/
    Like new with 900-1000 Km, with GTO spec Pilot Super Sport.

    No fear about my reputation, i'm well known here.

    Daniel

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. odf911

    odf911 Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2013
    555
    London UK (Chelsea)
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    I looked into this and I believe all 599 have anchor points for a harness behind the seats (4 in total). You will need to remove the trim panels including c-pillars. The issue is making a hole in the back panel for the harness. You can find someone to do it but it will require some ad-hoc solution. Also the original Ferrari harness is quite pricey and has a go by date. I would go with some other after market brand. You can then include pre-tensioners that the F harness don’t have …
     
    pwjj2000 likes this.
  9. flat-12

    flat-12 Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2011
    375
    Germany
    I have heard that the 4 point harness has no permit for the USA and was never offered in the USA. It’s difficult to get the original ones, i looked after a set. You have to retighten the harness after some laps, it’s getting loose after a time.

    The Roll Bar was availible last year.

    The BBS Fi - GTO rims should be the strongest and lightest wheels. There is an advantage because of the 285 wide Michelin Pilot super sport front tire.
     
    pwjj2000, George Vosburgh and Skidkid like this.
  10. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    DZ-96 Thanks for letting me know, but I found a brand new set here close to me in the US and have acquired them. Yours look great, I'm sure you'll sell them.
     
  11. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Thanks, always kinda knew I was gonna have to actually look. Will do that and report back. And will have to really look into harnesses if the attachment points are there.
     
  12. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
     
  13. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Thank you Terry,
    I have gotten a set of GTO wheels and titanium bolts just for track use of my 599 HGTE (which I really love). Now moving on to the question of tires. I am not tracking competitively (yet?) but just for the pleasure of learning, exploring, and utilizing the car's capabilities, and I am trying to decide on tires. I have read through as much as I can find on tires for HGTE's in the forums. I have tracked it already with my HGTE wheels and tires which are Michelin Pilot 4S 245/35 ZR20 (95Y) K1 front, and 315/35 ZR20 (110Y) K1 rear. Pretty impressive tires to me.
    Nevertheless I am well aware that the present limitation is overwhelmingly the pilot and not the plane.
    I had read in one 599/HGTE thread about using a larger front tire, in that example a 255/35, and the subsequent reduction in understeer. Not sure exactly how far to take this considering my current modest track driving skills. Also don't know at what point I might make things more difficult for myself rather than simply expanding the performance potential. Same thought applies as to the value of going with Michelin Cup 2's, with a higher performance capability, albeit with a wear penalty.
    Kind of like a diminishing return question. Wouldn't want to reduce my ability to advance my skills (or safety!) by overreaching. (Putting aside that tracking a 599 is a bit over the top in the first place....)
    I do assume a larger front tire, even a 285 would not present a clearance issue in my front fenders as they came OEM on a 599 GTO?
    Any thoughts on going with a wider front tire, and to what size? Stick with 4S or go Cup 2?
    Obviously, the decision and responsibility is mine and mine alone, just interested in what more experienced and knowledgeable persons might think.......
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,063
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Paul- The GTO came with 285/30 20 MPSS front tires originally, to keep the rolling diameter roughly the same as the 245/35 20 GTB tires (26.73" vs 26.75" calculated). Those big tires were also accompanied by changes in springs and rear anti-roll bars to keep her balanced in turns. Going to too large a front tire will tend to make her oversteer without those changes. Going to 255/35 fronts and the same 315/35 rears should give pretty balanced handling since originally HGTEs were fitted with the same size tires as the vanilla GTB (245/35 20 F/305/35 20 R). Plus that keeps the ratio front to rear the same as OEM.

    For track only or very careful street use, the Sport Cup 2 tires will work much better, but also put more strain on her brakes and suspension.
     
  15. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Thanks Terry, great advice and I'm pleased it's what I was thinking too. Makes total sense since I am +1 on the rear already. Appreciate the insight!
     
  16. odf911

    odf911 Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2013
    555
    London UK (Chelsea)
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    Did you manage to install the harness?
     
  17. pwjj2000

    pwjj2000 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 10, 2021
    37
    USA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    After a lot of info gathering re: submarining with 4 pt harness, the hassle of install, and ease of normal road use since I drive it basically every day, (makes grocery runs and errands way less of a chore!), I went in another direction. After talking to a bunch of racing guys for their point of view on increased safety for non-racing / track events in a road car, and also a few HPDE instructors who regularly put themselves at risk with unknown drivers, I went with the Simpson Hybrid S Head And Neck Restraint - 3-Point Compatible setup.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Obviously not equivalent safety to a racing 5/6pt harness with a Hans device but seems to be a good compromise offering a significant increase in neck safety without modifying the car or compromising ease of use for street driving. Hoping I never have the opportunity to report on its effectiveness at high speeds...............................
     
    odf911 likes this.

Share This Page