599/430 Prices Crashing | Page 16 | FerrariChat

599/430 Prices Crashing

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Napolis, Oct 13, 2008.

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  1. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Maybe it was a nice color.........:rolleyes:

    Two 599GTBs at Franco's party yesterday, they certainly are not "rare" in SOME neighborhoods!
     
  2. 355bnut

    355bnut Karting

    Jan 8, 2006
    238
    Greenwich, CT
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    DomC
    With all due respect, the people who bought these cars are multiple Ferrari owners. There are more educated owners about these cars in this area than most. At the same time, there are some unusually deeper pockets around as well. Don't delude yourself into thinking that only Fchatters know the real Ferrari market. Assuming others that disagree with you are ignorant is the first step toward self delusion.
     
  3. SDChris

    SDChris Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2006
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    Chris
    #378 SDChris, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008

    Yes, you are right, the dealer you talk with do have a few brokers or other dealers they work, that are genrally done through Ilux or thalist..or relationships built through the networks...ask them..

    Thalist and Ilux are done in real time, daily!

    But how can you say wholesale is less then MMR if the MMR is made of real auction transactions?
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Lee

    You like your car and that's all that matters. No question modern cars are wonderfull to own and drive. I got to say I fully understand what you're saying. I enjoyed humping Dino Competizione around the Targa but Meg didn't and read me the riot act.

    This year we're driving a FIAT Dino Spyder. I love my old metal but many don't and I understand why they don't.

    I like the way the 8C looks but I admit I'm a retro guy. For the street I understand that a 599 is wonderfull.

    In my heart I believe that we're going back to the days when exotic cars were driven by people who love them. When Ferrari Brass Starts comparing their cars to Luxuary Jewlery as BB said:

    "The thrill is gone..."

    Happy Thanksgiving to You and Yours!!
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Thanks for the love! So far, so good.......but they won't close NASA or HP.........anytime soon.

    It is strange times...at the show yesterday there's folks 'showing' the cars to the Public and talking passion, and then some get locked up and left as static displays....so there's just two kinds of owners, I think......

    I left mine out of the show 'cuz of recent damage, but still let lot's of kids tromp thru it......

    Totally agree with comment about servicing the Old Girls....no, I don't mean River Oaks housewives!.
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    I too know of a couple of long-time Ferrari owners who "knowingly" paid slightly over MSRP for a 599. Simply put, they wanted the car, and they could afford it.

    This doesn't mean, however, that the overall market isn't tanking. Either directly or indirectly (e.g., margin calls), debt is destroying net worth all over the world.


    Simple, there is so much proxy buying where someone pays an independent dealer $500 to bid on a car. With the real-time video feed combined with cell phones, MMR has turned into a retail market for high end cars.

    In fact, it has gotten to the point where even regular used cars are getting bid up because we don't see the program cars that we used to see.

    My point is this -- I would never pay more than average MMR wholesale for a car. I have been burned twice here. Fnuk me once, shame on me. Fnuk me twice, shame on you.

    Dale
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    It is truly a time to be thankful for what you have, we've had it "good" a long time.....

    It's just gonna be "not so good" for awhile..

    B.B. King was just here, missed that one but caught Texas Johnny Brown.....
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    Funny, you should mention this. Lately, I have been daydreaming about these cars. It would be nice to have a good car to work on and drive. Yeah, yeah, I know all about "Fix It Again Tony." But with modern electrical connections and electronic ignitions, along with weber carbs, it doesn't seem to be a bad way to go and all for the price of a Ferrari fender.

    Dale
     
  9. SDChris

    SDChris Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2006
    1,840
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    Chris
    Fair enough, but that is not as wide spread as belived..90% of the cars sold at these auctions are sold for resale to dealers..like I said in my post above, many of these sales are only open to franchised dealers. I always do $2000 back of black, which many times is near the avg. MMR.

    I but I know your pain. I have been burned as well...What really get you are the fee's! Broker fee's for reping the car, house fee's and transport to and from! Thats why I just use the the dealerlink and 20 group for dd cars..
     
  10. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
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    Aug 4, 2004
    5,111
    Living Falls NC
    "I got to say I fully understand what you're saying. I enjoyed humping Dino Competizione around the Targa but Meg didn't and read me the riot act."

    Jim...had to laugh at this comment....seems some of us have the same "better half" issues. I luv driving my Dino and my GTC, but my wife thinks they are uncomfortable and just old. My 8 yr old grandson calls my GTC the "Model T". Just so I don't have to drive by myself anymore I bought an 05 SA. It is a great car and I can have a willing co-pilot, but it just does not have the vintage smells/sounds/efforts....the experience. Oh well.......

    To further the point on spouses and cars......Earlier this year I tried to get a group of 12-15 cars/couples to do a luxury Mille Miglia tour. We would ship our cars to Italy, start in Brescia and take a leisurely and luxurious tour of the famous route. Had great hotels/villas, drives no more than 5 hrs in one day, days off, cooking classes, sightseeing.......you name it. The tanking economy probably deep-sixed the tour, but one comment I heard consistently is "the wife does not want to ride in a car with me for 1000 miles". I didn't figure that into the equation!

    Back to the thread......... we like to think of these cars as what gets our enthusiast blood flowing. It helps keep us young. The positive part of market correction may be the availability of some better deals to surface. This will allow us "car nuts" to add more toys to the chest.

    Keep the revs up!!!
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    A FIAT with Ferrai sized service bills, there's one at Ferdas.....
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    LOL! Lady Valeria made it 2,650 miles (four days) then started crying, pulled over and gve me the keys........six blocks away from her home......

    The beginning of the End, looking back..

    I was just cranky, from sleeping in the 308GTB all morning.
    I need to learn a little, about STFU.......

    Jim, he got rooftop air scoops....:rolleyes:
     
  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    #388 Napolis, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    Hah! Lynne and I in a Fiat-Abarth 750 Allemano Spider for a New England 1000. Now that was cozy (I'm not a small guy) and a little hair raising (temp gauge off the scale most of the week). :D

    LOVE the Arancio Dino Spider.
     
  15. Grim Reaper

    Grim Reaper Formula Junior

    #390 Grim Reaper, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
    I think Jim, Dale and others are just trying to point out the displacements and moment to moment commerce.

    It should not be taken as negativity, but reality or overall collective viewpoints which have weighting.

    Especially if this is supported by substanitive evidence.

    I read most of the their posts, whether I agree, disagree, say hmmm or ask why...


    Seperately, I know there are many in the camp that are being squeezed to the last drop of blood.


    It is interesting that this thread has many, many posts, especially in the last twenty-four hours which is telling in and of itself.
     
  16. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2003
    5,180
    355bnut posted:

    "With all due respect, the people who bought these cars are multiple Ferrari owners. There are more educated owners about these cars in this area than most. At the same time, there are some unusually deeper pockets around as well. Don't delude yourself into thinking that only Fchatters know the real Ferrari market. Assuming others that disagree with you are ignorant is the first step toward self delusion."


    With all due respect, I am a multiple Ferrari owner. The point of my post, which you may have misunderstood, was that though dealers will occasionally be able to sell high, for the reasons I listed, IMO the overall trend will be down. As many other have suggested. If you disagree, you may be the deluded one.
     
  17. isellpower

    isellpower Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2003
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    Jason
    Barrack just said on CNBC that he expects commercial property to loose around 50% of it's value. Most of the money players hold large amounts of commercial property. If you think the residential downfall put some Ferrari's on the market, wait a few months and see what the commercial downfall will put out on the market. Even a pee-on like myself has 2 1,200 sq ft spaces that have been sitting for nearly a year without even a bite. I assume that the guys who own office buildings and shopping malls won't think twice about loosing a 100 or 200K on a car. I have followed Barrack for about 5 years now and he really seems to know his sh*t. He has admitted that he fully expects to take a huge beating in the next year. If 430 spiders are going to hit 100K in 18 months, what will the early Gallardo market look like?
     
  18. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
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    Steve Metz
    Simple, there is so much proxy buying where someone pays an independent dealer $500 to bid on a car. With the real-time video feed combined with cell phones, MMR has turned into a retail market for high end cars.

    In fact, it has gotten to the point where even regular used cars are getting bid up because we don't see the program cars that we used to see.


    That is what I do when I want a car. My brother in law is a car dealer and I tell him what I want and he gets it and I give him a small commission on it. The car is picked up with the other cars he is buying that day.
     
  19. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 10, 2003
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    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    +1. i've been to the atlanta auto auction high line sales numerous times. filled with buyers shopping for themselves.
     
  20. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Fiat Dino Spyders are really neat cars. I looked hard for one a few years back, but couldn't find a decent one and moved on to other things. Last week I was admiring Mr. Tonkin's, in his shop.

    Do you own one?

    And, Happy Thanksgiving!

     
  21. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

    May 16, 2007
    5,083
    Missouri
    #396 tundraphile, Nov 24, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
    If you don't count the occasional Veyron or Zonda, IMO the 430 & 599 would be considered the top of the "production" exotic car food chain. If their values are tanking, along with earlier Ferraris like the 360 and 550, where does that leave the "lesser" brands?

    Someone mentioned Maseratis for $20k, and it appears the 2002-03 cars with a few miles are already below $30k, so this seems entirely plausible, roughly 20% of original MSRP. For many surviving the rough times will be the prority, and buying a Maser even at $20k is probably not high on your list of priorities. Same phenomenon with a 911 Turbo, DB7, or Viper I would assume.

    It seems there would be downward price pressure even worse on other brands. Say you wanted a Vanquish or a 360 equally as much. If the 360 is $75k, it would be tough to justify spending $100k for a Vanquish. Change the dollars and cars if you like, but I think you get my point.

    1. Basically the question is if Ferrari, the most storied name in all of automobilia, has trouble selling its functionally excellent cars and the newish used Ferraris also are depreciating like crazy...wouldn't companies like Porsche, Aston Martin, or even Lamborghini be hit even worse?

    2. Projections are for the general economy in 2009 to be even more challenging than 2008. Does anyone want to offer an opinion when the turnaround will begin and what will the signals be the recovery has started?

    3. Am I the only one interested to see how ugly Barrett-Jackson gets this January, and how many times we hear "well-bought"?
     
  22. jeff

    jeff Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    1,924
    North America
    One Bentley dealer sent emails out to their customers offering $50K off of MSRP just to get rid of current inventory.
     
  23. isellpower

    isellpower Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2003
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    Midwest
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    Jason

    The 03-05 Vipers dropped before the "crash". The 08's are now starting to drop, but they can and could be bought under list anyway. Used C6 Z's have taken a bow as of late also. The percentages may be the same, but the dollar amounts are far from that of Ferrari, AMG, Aston, etc. due to their much higher MSRP of course. There is an interesting thread over on Rennteam from a manager of a Porsche dealership. He talked about the price drop over just the last 60 days for trade-ins and it was amazing how low they've gone. He quoted the cars you speak of, 335 BMW's, S4 Audi's, AMG's, etc.
     
  24. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Cool, that means I will get to pay half what I originally budgeted for a shop...
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Thanks.

    Yes we own a 2.4 Liter one. We're going through her and painting her Dino Competizione Yellow with blue carpets and black leather.

    She'll be ready for the Historic Targa next June.

    She'll live in Europe until I'm too old to drive.
     

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