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599/430 Prices Crashing

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Napolis, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
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    Aug 5, 2008
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    what i meant was...performance wise, the GT-R is the best thing out, and much better bang for the buck, i am a Ferrari fan all day and in debates with other performance enthusiasts, THEY don't see how Ferrari can justify its price when for a 1/3 of the price you get equal or better performance...

    from what i see, the pure enthusiasts go for the older cars...

    i original reply was commenting on how i felt the market was correcting its self because the new cars were grossly over priced...

    and no, i have no desire to own anything other than a F car...
     
  2. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Do you imply that any enthusiast who is buying a new Ferrari cannot be "pure"?
    Do you have to disregard all the current Ferrari cars and stick with the old ones only,in order to be "pure"??!!
     
  3. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 1, 2005
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    Selfish of me I know, but I hope you are right.....I will not complain one bit about having more and more care brought down to my "realistic" end of the totem pole! :)

    And in all seriousness the prices for many cars, not just Ferraris, had gotten a little ridiculous, or even a lot (see muscle cars).

    Question: Do you see the really high end vintage stuff getting cheaper to? There are far fewer of those than there are 430's laying around.
     
  4. REMIX

    REMIX F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    For a long time, I've felt much the same, not only about cars, but about TVs, clothes, shoes, appliances, home improvement stuf and a bunch of other crapola that was overpriced simply due to the availability of easy credit. Those of us who try to live cash only find it VERY difficult to do so in a credit-driven society. We just had this conversation at home a few days ago...a few years ago even.

    Bring on the pain!!

    RMX
     
  5. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,579
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    I see what you mean, but I'm not looking forward to that day. If you see deflation on that scale, most people won't have any money to buy anything.
     
  6. Bluehinder

    Bluehinder Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2005
    861
    Colorado
    Some truth in what you say, but not everybody extended themselves in the stock market, or bought too much house.

    There is always a bright side to market/economic conditions for prudent people.

    I still welcome firesale prices on tasty new Ferraris. I have no urge to sell mine, in fact, I wish I had a chance to buy it now.
     
  7. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,579
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    Again I see your point of view, but may I add that your compartmentalization of those who bought too much house/lost in the stock market is somewhat too insular. This has affected the global community from top to bottom. In other words, many people who were "prudent" are absolutely left at a disadvantage when they haven't done anything in particular to risk their futures. This is a systemic failure, not a localized one.
     
  8. mbarr

    mbarr Karting

    Jan 11, 2004
    220
    From Bloomberg:
    Vintage Bargains

    With movers and moguls across the globe fretting over inflation, deflation, stagnation and the prospect of the U.S. being burdened with a $1 trillion deficit, quick-escape broker Michael Sheehan is urging the hoi polloi to hit the road and break away from the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune behind the wheel of a discounted vintage Ferrari.

    ``I've got a street-legal 1982 512 BBi series with 26,000 miles for $129,500,'' says Sheehan, president of Ferraris-on- line.com in Newport Beach, California. ``One owner, a former Lehman Brothers partner. The day Lehman tanked, he was asking $149,500.''

    Sheehan says Sept. 15 may mark the moment when a red Ferrari ceased to be the prized piece of bling for Wall Street honchos. Since Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. filed for bankruptcy, Sheehan adds, the sticker price on a vintage Prancing Horse so far has slid 20 percent, echoing Great Depression humorist Will Rogers's observation that America is ``the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poor house in an automobile.''

    ``I normally get one call a day from clients asking me to sell their cars,'' Sheehan says. ``I'm now averaging six calls a day and that number will certainly rise. Nobody needs a Ferrari, they need a house.''
     
  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Damn, maybe I need to rethink my vow to swear off stupid money cars like Ferraris.

    But, wait a minute, hold da phone! I have a brand new $25,000 Miata sitting in the garage. Let's see, if I put about another $3k in mods into the car, I will have a car that I can drive to the track, kick some Ferrari butt, and drive home.

    Nah, you guys can have em. No more stupid money cars for me -- at any price.

    Dale
     
  10. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    Sheehan is a survivor of the last big bust of 1990-91. I suspect he knows a bust when he sees it.

    Dave
     
  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Is he not also the guy who liquidated his stock earlier this year to go into property.
     
  12. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    Also knows a piss3d off Japanese business man when he sees one as well ;)
     
  13. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    No, you have a brand new $25k->19k Miata in garage, so 3k puts you 9k upsidedown. 36% post, 24% pre-mods. :)
     
  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Now, now, let's not go telling stories out of school...

    Dale
     
  15. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    But they're so damn funny. There's the SG stories, the MS stories, the restoration shop stories, the tach needle stories, the serial number on 3 different cars stories,....
    I have a great Gmund coupe story too, you ex-P-car guy you :)
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Tru dat. But the kiddos might not understand. You know, it's not good to bust some one's view of reality. :)

    While you might be able to get away telling them in the owners' forum without getting threatened by a lawsuit (although as a Jap Crap owner, I got booted out), some stories are best told over steak and scotch.

    Dale
     
  17. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    #142 Sfumato, Oct 15, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
    If the lawyer was any good, it wouldn't have ended that way. (Although facts didn't help. Damn reality getting in the way of justice)
     
  18. Joe Mac

    Joe Mac Formula 3

    notice that Ferraris coming off the assembly line continue to be acquired years prior to their build. So, should they be concerned with the would be could be should be buyer who doesn't own one now who is debating between the Ferrari and a Vette? doubtful
     
  19. Jompen

    Jompen Formula Junior

    May 27, 2006
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    #144 Jompen, Oct 16, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
    When You see Enzos at 400k usd, F40´s and F50´s at 200-250k usd. Please let me know. I agree with napolis, people don´t understand or don´t want to understand what is happening right now. What we see is very, very serious. These types of crashes are rare and both destroy as well as create huge values. All depending on leverage, cash situation and timing.

    For people with cash, huge oppurtunities will occur over the coming years.

    I wish more people in the finacial/banking industry had studied the past. i get scared talking to hedge fund managers, brokers and other advisors. Most have not read enough of financial history. Same patters can be seen in most crashes, still people are surprised.
     
  20. mjw599

    mjw599 Formula Junior
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    Jul 30, 2008
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    A Chinese Democracy
    You need to get over to this thread
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218101

    Somebody bought one for the numbers you relay and they 360/430 guys are in serious denial
     
  21. docf

    docf Formula 3

    Sep 14, 2008
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    I can remember when the first gas crunch hit with poor economy in the early 70's,. You could buy a 427 Shelby Cobra for 3000-4000 dollars any day of the week. Last 60 big block Vet's for a song and look what happened afterword's. I just bought a 2003 F1 Modena for a very good Price and am happy I bought it. TOO many for TOO many yrs. buying Exotics and supposedly limited prod. veh. for far to much moneyand the wrong reason. Being afraid to put miles on it so as to devalue it. If your purpose is to own a Ferrari or other exotic we are in a time to pull the trigger with proper research. I can't tell you the # people who kicked themselves missing the deals in the 70's. I was one of those people that brought a BBi in early 85 which was one of the supposedly last ( prod ended 84) and sold it right before the fall of the Japanese Market for 4x what I paid for it, then almost made the mistake of buying F-40 at the same time for 800,000 and lost the deal as couldn't raise capital fast enough. Thank God! These cars are to be enjoyed, if you happen to make money on selling it that is good, but out of context.
     
  22. fcardesire

    fcardesire Karting

    Aug 7, 2007
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    Greater LA
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    Frank M.
    I'm with Jim on this one. I've been looking at some Gallardo's and have found that the private sellers are certainly reflecting the times. However based on some dealerships that I've been to, they're dreaming if they think they can get the asking prices they've advertised. In some cases they're still asking for $20~$30K over what private sellers have been offering for the same model year and mileage.

    Reality will hit these dealerships soon enough.
     
  23. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
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    There's a distinct difference between rare collectible cars and modern production cars.

    I was in our local dealership yesterday to say hi to the guys and the consensus among the sales guys dealing with new and used cars is that traffic in the dealership is at historically low levels.
    Ferraris are the ultimate luxury item and we are in an economy where luxury items are being postponed if not outright dismissed by consumers until there is some clarity in where the economy is going.

    Rare cars however have a smaller universe of players who are largely unaffected by the economy. I'm talking here of well established old money, entrenched income, collectors who continue to seek out the special one of a kind car they need to fill a particular gap in their collection. Prices in that arena are strong are haven't faced anything like the kind of downward pressure on modern cars.
     
  24. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    There may be however,new opportunities for guys like myself,who missed the boat previously and now wait anxiously for that F40 to get back again in a reasonable price range....
     

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