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599 6-1 headers

Discussion in '612/599' started by DZ-96, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Makuono

    Makuono Formula Junior
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  3. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    #52 DZ-96, Nov 12, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020

    Hello Mike


    I had about 25 hours, but I was not in hurry.
    You need good tools !!!


    I would try the HGTE mufflers before you go with stock GTB mufflers.
    You can go with the test pipes if you have already these, it's not necessary to go with Fabios H pipes.
    I have no drone.
    My 550 has excellent emissions with Fabios system which is quite the same as for the 599.

    My exact config :

    Fabios headers
    Fabios cats
    Tubi Style test pipes
    stock mid section tubes
    stock GTB mufflers

    No drone
    Very silent with closed valves
    The hell with open valves, like GTO

    Mike, can you tell me :
    When coldstart, how long does it need that the valves closes ?


    Daniel
     
  4. vonbeeler

    vonbeeler Karting
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    Daniel,

    Thank you for the info. Wish I could do the labor myself.
    I took a video and attached here.
    Seems like valves partially close after about 5 seconds and it quiets down considerably.
    Then at 45 seconds seems like they completely close since it gets very quiet right before the end of the video. Hope that helps.
    Mike

    Having problems uploading the vid here.
    I’ll try something else to get it loaded shortly


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  5. vonbeeler

    vonbeeler Karting
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    Cold start:





    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  6. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Mike

    Seems that they fully closes after about 40 sec.
    So similar to mine.

    I think the temperatures in S California are much higher than here 3 weeks ago when I tested.
    So the cold start phase should be longer here.


    Daniel
     
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  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Daniel- Got the 575M today, made it up the drive and, she sounds great.

    Guess it takes awhile for the 599 to generate enough vacuum to close the valves. Typical of high performance engines, which do not generate much vacuum at low revs. Not an issue on fail close exhaust valves, but obviously is for fail open valves.
     
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  9. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Terry,

    I hope the sound of your 575 is what you expected.

    And thanks that you explain the detail of the vacuum system.


    Daniel
     
  10. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

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    This looks totally normal to me. Looks like you need to reset the tire pressure sensors.
     
  11. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

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    Daniel, You went with Fabio's cats also is that correct?
     
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  13. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Yes.
    The 550 and the 599 are both with the cats.

    Got an excellent result at the 2 years emission check with the 550.

    Daniel
     
  14. Ff 660

    Ff 660 Rookie

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    Hi guys, can someone please tell me how I can get in touch with Fabio I am interested in the headers
    Thanks
     
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  15. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Jim, google his website.

    Daniel
     
  16. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

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    https://www.fiammenghiitalia.com
     
  17. chris1866

    chris1866 Formula Junior

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    This is very intriguing. I just got an '07 599 and love it except for the sound.
    Looking at Fabio's systems...
    The 6-1 headers with cats are significantly more expensive (2,255 Euro, to be exact) than the "race version" with no cats.
    I live in GA and have to pass emissions via OBD2 scanner, so as long as the CEL isn't on (catalyst inefficiency, etc) then it will pass. Does anyone know how the 599 responds to deleting the precats vs main cats? To clarify, I'm defining "precats" as the ones in the OEM manifolds and the "main cats" as the ones downstream after the 2-1 collector pieces.
    I want the high-pitched sound, and am OK with it being loud with the bypasses open, but want to avoid drone while cruising around at normal speeds with the bypass closed.
    IF the car doesn't throw a CEL when you eliminate the pre-cats, then it seems like a good way to save some money on this setup, provided that you maintain the main cats? Or is there an advantage to keeping some catalyst far upstream (fabio's cats), and deleting the main cats instead? I assume keeping both, along with the OEM rear mufflers would probably be too quiet for my liking and somewhat defeat the purpose.
    I know with the 430, for example, that switching to aftermarket headers (fabspeed or similar) which delete the precats contained in the stock manifolds, it increases the sound quite a bit with the bypasses open, even with the rest of the system remaining completely stock. No CEL either.

    Appreciate the feedback!
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    On the 575s at least, deleting the precats with Fabio's headers and cats and then running the sensors to appropriate locations has worked fine. Imagine the 599 is the same. No CELs on mine. The GTO went to 6-1 headers, deleted the precats, and used primary cats only.

    Incidentally, your terminology is correct. Those calling the precats the main cats and the main cats the secondary cats are just trying to sell exhaust parts.
     
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  19. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

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    If you look in this thread, Daniel ( DZ-96 ) is set up with Fabio's headers with Fabio's pre-cats, straight pipes instead of the main cats, and OEM mufflers. You might want to talk to him. Congratulations on the car!
     
  20. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Hi Chris

    They cost more because the cats itself are not cheap, against empty tubes, so normal.
    The GTB has 8 Lambda sensors and some of the cars 2 temp sensors (not installed at my car)

    Original setup
    4 before the pre cats (1 sensor in each header)
    4 after the pre cats (before the main cats)
    So there is no sensor after the 2 large main cats in original setup.

    In Fabios system, the headers have no cats inside, the 2 main cats are in the position of the 2 Y pipes, so they are in front of the original main cats.
    You could install Fabios system with or without cats and then the original main cats.
    The 8 Lambdas are in same position like original, 4 in the headers (tube of cyl 2, 5, 7, 11) and 4 Lambdas after Fabios cats.
    Sam has the cat delete pipes from Fabio and as I know no problems with CELL.
    So you should get emission check OK from OBD, when nobody tests at the end of the exhaust.

    Remember that with Fabios system (headers and cats) the cats are the only "silencer" with valves open !!!
    The original main cats are changed for Fabios pipes (or Tubi test pipes or other manufacturer), the mid section has no silencers, and the original mufflers are only tubes through a muffler housing without any silenced function when valves open.
    Without any cats, the system has absolute no silencing part in the complete system when valves open !!!

    There is no drone (not with valves open - not with valves closed) you don't need a H Pipe or something, the original exhaust also has no connection from left to right.
    With valves closed you have the cats and the mufflers which both silence the noise.
    With valves open you have the cats only for silence the noise.

    Installing the headers, no cats from Fabio and the original 2 main cats works, but I don't know how effective it is because the cats are much more downstream from the heads like Fabios cats.
    And in original spec the main cats are behind the Lambda control, so the job are made by the pre cats, the main cats are an addition.

    I would be happy to get the car a little bit less loud with open valves.
    I asked Fabio to make small absorption silencers instead the pipes after his cats.

    Sorry for my bad English, I hope it helps a little bit.


    Daniel

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  21. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    You can see the position of the Lambdas.

    4 at each bank, 2 before and 2 after Fabios cats, after the cats the dowpipes (Fabio's, or Tubis, or ...., or original main cats)

    You also can see that I have no temp sensors, they are closed.
    No idea which cars have them and which not.

    Perhaps Terry knows.

    Daniel
     
  22. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Original setup :

    In my opinion, the 2 large main cats are not the main cats, because the Lambda control is before the 2 large cats.
    So the 4 pre cats makes the job of cleaning the emission.

    The 2 large cats are behind all happened with cleaning, they have no Lambda control, no temp control (if installed)


    What do you think about this theory, Terry ?

    Daniel
     
  23. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    The GTO has 4 Lambda sensors in total, each bank 1 before and 1 after the 2 "main" cats, coming after the headers.
    The GTB has 8 Lambda sensors in total, each bank 1 before and 1 after the 4 "main" cats, sitting inside the headers.

    So my theory is, that the Lambdas are around the main cats which do the main job in getting down the emissions.
    GTO : 2 main cats
    GTB : 4 main cats and 2 secondary cats

    But to be honest, not much important which is pre, main or secondary.

    Daniel
     
  24. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    I agree with this. They are obviously getting hot enough to do the intended function so it doesn't matter. First in line does the majority of the work, second does cleanup. BUT, if the first was completely gone the second would still do the job.
     
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  25. chris1866

    chris1866 Formula Junior

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    Thanks very much for the detailed info, Daniel!
    This makes a lot more sense. Obviously the Lambda sensors are there to detect catalyst efficiency within a certain range. If the values are outside of the programmed range, I assume a CEL will illuminate. So, if you were to delete the cats (Fabio's "race" headers), then you would have no catalyst between the 2 sets of lambda sensors, and I would assume this would cause a CEL. But if there are no Lambda sensors after the "main" cats further downstream then they are not being monitored by the ECU and would therefore not trigger a CEL if removed.
    Does this seem correct?
     
  26. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Deleting the 2 large cats at the original setup cause no CELL.

    Daniel
     
  27. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

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    Fabio has all the diagrams on his site.
     
  28. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Daniel- The precats are really designed to clean up the exhaust during a cold start. The primary cats do most of the cleaning after everything is warm. On EPA cycles, the testing is done from a cold start, so all the attention is on cleaning up the exhaust early before the main cats heat up. That is why all the sensors are up front on cars with precats. Later systems like the GTO and the Corvette Z06 all the way back from 2002, have improved cat technology that does not require the precats. This is unlike what you usually see with local emissions tests, where they like the engine hot to cut down on the failure chances.
     
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