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599: Ferrari's Hummer

Discussion in '612/599' started by checkmate, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. checkmate

    checkmate Rookie

    Dec 5, 2006
    18
    The 599 is Ferrari's Hummer.
    And there will soon be a V-8 version of the GT that will be like the H2 and so forth.

    I'm a banker who finances automobile dealer inventories and also high net worth individual collectors. This year, I was involved in the trade of an S7 for an MC-12 and the purchase (at wholesale and retail) of a variety of Ferraris. I own a Porsche racer, a vintage Ferrari and a couple of family vehicles. Here, I primarily monitor the "chat" around a couple of stolen Ferraris, which I helped recover with law enforcement in two American states on behalf of a client... and to watch the market conditions (real and perceived) for Ferrari's worldwide.

    I agree with the talent of television's TOP GEAR: "No thanks" to the 599.

    Recently, one of my European clients took me for a two hour session in his 599. And even in his expert hands (I don't need to brag) the car is obviously an overly technological GT car that is numb to the driver's control. I found the feedback from the road to be missing- except at the slowest speeds- due to the fancy magneto shocks (which only save Ferrari money in manufacturing, just like the carbon dash saves the factory from hiring women who get hand and shoulder problems from working non-reflective leather).

    It's clear to me that exotic manufacturers (all of them) are now selling testosterone technology- not a driving experience- to an increasingly clueless crowd of new money. The 599 is as over-the-top in "performance" as the Lamborghinis are in 600hp styling.
    And to pretend that the 599 is either a sports car or an exotic is a joke.
    A supercharged 911 is a sports car and an MC-12 at 300Km/hr is an exotic (and a better one than an Enzo, at three times the cost and 1/8th the production run).

    With the Ferrari 599, any normal owner will only use 50% of the car's potential performance. I know two U.S. dealers with multiple 599 deliveries to owners - none of whom are "crazy" about their cars. And I know one senior Ferrari service employee who thinks the 575 and 612 may actually be the better GTs (and for the reason I'd agree with: That with the older cars, you're spending HALF as much money for a GT driving experience that's more in tune with real world driving conditions- than a 599 can be because it's so technology-intensive.

    With these older GT platforms, you're getting as much car as you can handle and enjoy... on each drive you take. And with the 599, you're in a numb, insulated, over-the-top 600hp Hummer that cost you twice as much and which is a "better car"- but a worse "driving experience".

    One of my clients is a retired Swiss Air Force pilot. He flies a two seat MiG21 trainer.
    THAT is a high performance driving experience!
    A 599 is like a Bentley GT -without the amenities.
    Let the chat room abuse begin.
    (yea, I'm secretly trying to pump up the resale values of 575's for a client who's about to buy a Tesla. And I'm looking forward to trading my Porsche in for a 0-60 in 2 seconds electric Wrightspeed X1 in 2009. I'm an environmentalist, interested in a high performance car where 85% of the propulsion is at the wheels in torque- instead of going up in thin air as thermodynamic heat loss...as is the case with any internal combustion engine)
     
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  3. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    #2 DrStranglove, Nov 7, 2007
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  4. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 14, 2003
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    #3 darth550, Nov 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    MR EXOTIC!!! BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  5. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Checked your old posts. Love to see pics of your cars.
    BTW, 599 has same clutch, dual disc in 6 speed and F1. Difference is clutch is operated electrohydraulically. Gearbox same too. Graziano 6 like 550/575/612. Did you hear about the cambelt problems with the 599's too? Probably why your friends are flipping them. You still on a list for one, or sell your spot?
     
  6. Bronzage

    Bronzage Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2007
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    I dont understand the point of his post. If you dont like the 599 dont buy it...and hey...I love the fact that everyone has their own opinion and its your right to love a car or hate it....not gonna try and convince you. The fact that you think that ferrari are selling a testosorone experience you are right...one fueled by an unprecidented F1 history, championships, passion for art, performance, and tradition......if your testosorone doesnt get fueled up by a 599 or any other ferrari...then my freind your dead! I personally passed on the 599...not because of any dull experience or over tech....but because I thought the 612 was better value for money....and 4 seats...for me it did the trick...others hate it...but you know what...I wish i bought the 599 everyonce in a while....because its just a pehnominal car....9 times out of 10 i prefer the 612.....but thats me....doesnt mean i bash all things 599 and ferrari. If your new money....good for you...if your a collector good for you....if you know jack **** about cars good for you....good luck with your X1...should be fun.
     
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  8. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,498
    I suppose many people said the same about Daytonas. Time will tell...
     
  9. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    #7 DrStranglove, Nov 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Totally amazing. He needs this now....
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  10. supraman55

    supraman55 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2006
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    Vladislav
    This kid is real I D I O T. I am out of words. Anyone can piss him out from our dear F-chat?


    Well said, just nothing to add.
     
  11. RBK

    RBK F1 Rookie

    Jul 27, 2006
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    I don't know "checkmate" nor have any reason to criticize. My take away is that manufacturers cater to todays driver, not exactly (yesterdays) "seat of the pants" enthusiasts. Like it or not, technology is outpacing biology, with the result of less human and more computer decision making. As one who has owned and raced cars for decades, I , and many like me I am sure, can tell those 30, maybe even 40 and younger, cars are very different today, with most taking for granted everything from stabalization-traction controls to AWD, etc.

    Few, even those who "switch to race mode", know what a "slip angle" means. As Mario Andretti once said, the "only way you know if you have taken a car to 10/10ths is to come back with a steering wheel sometimes and then back up a notch". Few are willing to crash their car to find out its limits.

    I don't know if I would like driving a 612 over a 599 every day, I have not had enough time to compare. I do like driving my 430 for its beauty and refinement, my Z-06 for sheer "hot rod" thrills (it is faster than the 430), my Bentley GT, in part because I like the smell of the leather and occassionally get a feeling of being "on top of the world". I also the rush that comes from flooring my SL 55 with its supercharger . But, truth be known, when taking a long drive, I am more likely to jump into my (old) 2002 BMW 7 series (a very comfortable and a fun car to drive).

    My other cars, including a 1981 (European) Porsche Tubo are fun to drive, but "work" and not the "fun" they used to be, too noisy and requiring to much attention on the street (at speed). This particular car has killed a few people trying to tame it.

    Each of us has to find what pleases us and for the few fortunate who can afford to make choices, maybe own several cars to compensate for the drawbacks of each. The S7 is pretty but I can't see out of it. The Lamborghini is great, but for me, its interior is too angular and unappealling, I walked away from the Bugatti after looking at the price tag and finding out the maintenance requires towing a 2nd car behind it when planning a trip, and as for the Porsche GT, a great track car but having no place on a freweeway everyday. Driving an Aston Martin, imo, is a cramped and uninspiring experience, and the rest, inlcuding the Lexus, Mercedes, Spyker, Land Rover, etc., all lose something in the translation.

    At the end of the day, I appreciate a well considered presentation such as that made by checkmate. It resonates in me, whether I endorse all that is said or not. I find it odd how many seem threatned by the written word, and apparently lacking any rationale themselves, throw out one liners adding nothing to the discussion. Best
     
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  13. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    I do find it interesting that its somewhat forbidden to criticise the 599. I sold mine recently after about 1000 miles of ownership. I found myself smiling at Clarkson's words about the 599 since they actually closely mirrored my own opinions - "I respect it but don't love it". My exact words to my dealer were "I don't love it". Its too much like a super fast big benz for my taste, and I couldn't see myself wearing 100K+ in depreciation over a couple of years to own it. A 430S will be coming shortly which I think is likely to be much more up my street. The only question is do I keep the CS as well?
     
  14. Bronzage

    Bronzage Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2007
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    dan360....i like your comment...I personally just love all the technology in the car...but still settled for a 612....but agree with you completely on the price....I just couldnt justify it. Scuderia should be amazing...I am trying to see if I should go for a scud or the lightweight car comming out in 09'.
     
  15. MickOpalak

    MickOpalak Karting

    May 30, 2005
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    You need to drive a Lotus. They offer an incredible driving experience through light weight and no unnecessary technology.
     
  16. supraman55

    supraman55 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2006
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    Vladislav
    Its not forbidden to criticise, but not in that manner. It hard very painfull to me as F-enthusiast to read such noncenses. Just read more carefully all his posts, you will understand imidiatly that this guy is not so smart kid, not supercar expert.

    To like or not to like 599 GTB is matter of taste. I have many friends in Germany enjoying their 599 GTB, they are more than happy with their 599, and one of them have 27000 KM on odo and absotlutely NO problems and NO unexpected service visits. Many quite respectfull F-chat members enjoy their 599 GTB as well.



    I am on the list for 430 Scuderia too, with getting car this December (good Christmas gift, isnt it?). I have traded my October 599 GTB slot for December 430 Scuderia. We both like hardcore Ferraris.

    If you can, keep both of them. That will be quite unique collection. Best.
     
  17. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    Fair point, but having hung out here a lot there hasn't been much actual criticism of the 599 from owners. I thought it was a good time to just say "by the way I didn't particularly like mine", I thought it might make an interesting thread out of one that would otherwise be a waste.
     
  18. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    ok...now that the consensus is the 599 is "it"...let's hope tha risi will field a two car team in alms next year to contest the corvette's reign!!!
     
  19. FJerry

    FJerry Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2004
    933
    United States
    "the new cars are too numb, too heavy, have too much technical interference, have distorted the purity of the experience".

    This above statement could be applied to any marque. I bet when the 599 successor comes out someone will have the exact same reaction and then reflect fondly on how "involving" the 599 was... Time marches on. :)

    best regards,
    Jerry
     
  20. Houston348

    Houston348 Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
    2,269
    i agree, the 599 is going to be the only car to really de-throne the Vettes
     
  21. mksgr

    mksgr Karting

    Aug 13, 2006
    187
    Germany
    You obviously don't have experience with sports cars. How comes that you dare to write about them anyhow...? This is a forum for owners and drivers...
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
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    What do you think about 550's? They seem a great value right now around $100k, yellow is a good color on them among others.
     
  23. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    If the 599 is Ferrari's hummer, that means it will sell a lot; that people will see it as a desirable Icon; that Ferrari will be so happy that they will offer the H2, (which, I think, has been announced) and then that car will be wildly successful and then we will see the H3, version, which will be successful.

    Am I missing something . . . the Hummer was great; the H2 was great and the H3 is selling very well. So, in a critical post, suggesting the car lacks something, you compare it to things that are very successful?

    Criticism is OK, but I think you are trying to be cute and aloof. The "European Banker" may mean something to those of you who have never dealt with a European Banker, but I have. So, it adds nothing to your opinion--when was the last time I consulted a banker about whether to use wheel spacers in my 550 PF Barchetta?

    Back to your post, the Hummer series sold very well, so your comparison is confusing. If you are going to criticize, at least get your metaphors straight.
     
  24. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

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    #21 Sfumato, Nov 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    :) Doncha know Rob, them space aliens can see those yellow cars from the motherships real easy. Why ya think Todt has his 599 covered in foil?
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  25. RBK

    RBK F1 Rookie

    Jul 27, 2006
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    I wonder how many who comment here really do own a Ferrari? I have no axe to grind. I agree there is no substitute for driving a car, but someone who has ridden in a car has an "experience" that might be worth sharing.

    I often turn to these pages because I like what many have to say and there appears to be a good group of people. I am puzzled why so many take offense to people's viewpoints. I would say the overwhelming majority of us offer opinions based on best guesses and few "know" anything. The good news is that when someone really does need help solving a problem, many of us are very quick to direct the person toward a solution. However, even then, as is the case with the Fed Ruling ending importation of 430's, a "debate" continues. It is the nature of the game. Best
     
  26. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    mark k.
    The only "offense" here is a post by someone claiming to be a "european banker,here only to track the market for 599s",describing and comparing it
    to totally unrelated models (Bentley) in a way that shows he had absolutely "0" experience behind the wheel of one and is only repeating someone else's opinion as his own.
    As 410SA said already,real,experience based opinions,even negative (but realistic and personal) are interesting to read here, speculations,imagination and negativity for the sake of it are just a waste of time and a bore.
     
  27. supraman55

    supraman55 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2006
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    Vladislav
    +1
     
  28. spitfire691

    spitfire691 Karting

    Apr 10, 2007
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    Tokyo, HK, LA
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    Hideki Francis Onda
    Hi, I feel the same way.

    I am a former Russian astronaut. I have a few houses and horses around the world. I fly vintage jet fighters for fun (of course own a few). Can we be friends?
     

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