Would 599 GTO belongs in this super Ferraris..??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-TRqt4ovqQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImfEssKmhfE
See the models listed in parentheses on the "Super Ferraris" forum: 288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo That forum was created for the discussion of those models and their derivatives. Discussion of 599 models and derivatives should be in the "612/599" forum. Thread moved.
The 288GTO is a derivative of the 308 chassis. Why is the 599GTO not in the Super Ferrari section when it is the most powerful road going Ferrari ever built to date, outperforming all of the prior Super Ferraris currently listed?
You're missing the point. The discussion of specific models is broken down into individual forums to make them more easily accessible and for better site organization. It has nothing to do with performance. Seriously, how much sense would it make to group model discussion by performance? The forum in question was created for the discussion of the 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo, and derivatives of those models - because discussion of these cars belongs somewhere and it's not in the same forum with the 612/599 models, the BB models, or "Vintage" models. Since there is a forum for discussion of 599 models, why would it make sense to direct discussion about one specific 599 model to an entirely different forum? Because of that car's performance? In that case, should 412 P/330 P4 discussion belong in a forum with more modern cars? After all, they outperform road-going Ferraris that were built 30 years later. The fact that we even have to explain this means that the forum is probably improperly named. I think It should simply be "288 GTO/F40/F50/Enzo." People see "Super Ferraris" and suddenly feel slighted because their favorite model isn't grouped in with the others discussed in that forum. Rationales range from performance (the 599 GTO, for example) to value ("Why isn't the 250 GTO in 'Super Ferraris?' After all, it's the most expensive Ferrari ever built.")
Most guys receiveing the GTO own a 599. I think moving it would make for less input from the guys who post in this sectin.
Isn't the Scuderia faster than the Enzo around Fiorano? I guess that belongs in the Super Ferrari section too?
I think it is faster, but even if not it is a special model that is faster than most of the so-called Super Ferraris. A Scuderia will annihilate a 288GTO. "Super Ferrari" on this site is misleading and biased. If it is history, that is, historical Ferrari landmark models, then even at that the 599GTO still makes the cut as a Super Ferrari as it is the very pinnacle of the Ferrari food chain and is a limited model. Why the Enzo gets this distinction and the GTO does not is a fantastic double standard.
??? 599GTO is an evolved 599 at the end of the model line to further expoit the technology of the 599XX. Enzo is a purpose built supercar as was Enzo, F50, F40 and 288GTO (which is not an evolved 308). 599GTO is an extreme version of the Scuderia line of cars. Impressive in every way but still a 599
The Scuderia is faster than the Enzo around Fiorano. Performance is irrelevant, in this equation. The 458 "scuderia" will be faster than the 599GTO does that make it a "Super Ferrari?" Are the 550 Barchetta PF, and 575 Super America not "super Ferraris" if so, why not? They meet your criteria. The 599 GTO is not a "super Ferrari" nor is the 575SA etc. The 599GTO is an amazing car. However it is not a separate unique platform. There are several differences between it and the standard 599GTB, but it shares too many parts and has become part of the Ferrari special edition mill. Those prepared to make the argument that the 288GTO is nothing more than dressed up 308, need to understand it shares much less in common with 308 than the 599GTB does with the 599GTO. It has a unique chassis, engine, body, frame length etc. The most important detail though is that each "Super Ferrari" has it's own story to tell. The 599GTO is a limited edition 599GTB, it's story is no different than that of the 16M, which is also not a "Super Ferrari". That does not take away from the fact that it is an absolutely amazing car.
Clearly I won't sway your opinion, but I'll elaborate upon mine: The definition of Super Ferrari being a unique/distinct platform is false. The 288GTO is absolutely a 308 derivative, as I stated earlier. Furthermore, why is the 250GTO not on the Super Ferrari section when it is perhaps the most famous and one of the most winning GT Ferraris ever built? It annihilated its contemporaries. Is this not Super Ferrari material, at very least in context of Ferrari history? Yet the 288GTO is nothing but a tribute car, never officially raced under the Scuderia, and is based on a 308 platform. So as the paradigm shifted away from GT racing the 288 gets a passcard and it is a Super Ferrari? The F40, for that matter, is also, by evolutionary standards, a 308-based car. Yes, it's very different overall, an evolution of the 288, but it's DNA is directly from the 308. As such I think there is a very mixed and inconsistent standard to this moniker of Super Ferrari. The 599GTO, designated GTO, is at the very top, trumping in performance every Ferrari in production, and it is not considered a Super Ferrari? Then what is it? It isn't a super car? That is a gigantic double-standard. For that matter not even the 599XX is considered a Super Ferrari either?
Michael, El Wayne, and DM18 excellent posts and you guys know your history. Especially the way the 288 GTO was evolved as Carbon, Longitudinal Placed Motor, Turbos, Etc. Unlike the 599 GTO. El Wayne said it best, perhaps one section should be the 288/F40/F50/Enzo/ And Enzo Replacement Thread.
The 348 has more in common with Testarossa, than the 288GTO has in common with 308GTB. The 288GTO does not share its engine, body work, frame, brakes, suspension, most transmission pieces, and chassis with the 308. However the 599GTB shares all of the above with 599GTO. The greatest similarity the 308 and 288 share is looks. The 250GTO could not be considered a "Super Ferrari", in my opinion not even the FXX could be could considered a "Super Ferrari". Why? Because "Super Ferraris" and super cars are road cars the 250GTO was never designed to be a road car. Granted it was used as such in some cases. That was certainly not its purpose. The same goes double for the 599xx and FXX as you can't even register these cars for road use. If we do not make the division between road cars and race cars why then isn't every Ferrari F1 car a "Super Ferrari"? They certainly best every Ferrari road car in performance. Personally I think the FXX and 599xx cars fall under challenge cars and should be grouped accordingly. Ferrari seems to agree with me as well, as they group those cars in with the other challenge cars at events. Its the story of each individual "Super Ferrari" that makes it "super". In many cases each "Super Ferrari" was a game changer much the way the Mclaren F1 was. Gran Turismo Omologato implies the car was homologated for racing use however the reverse is true of the 250GTO. There was an attempt to homologate the 288 but it was deemed pointless for a number of reasons, competitiveness being paramount among the reasons. The 599GTO on the other hand has not been homologated for any racing series, nor will there been any attempts. Doing so would be a total waste of time. The name is nothing more than a selling point, a good point, but nothing more.
In due respect, and in acknowledgment to fairness, you must clearly see my point because you say the following: By the way, I'm chill; I do see your point of view and others' who do not share my position. The thread was created and raises points of discussion. I would only recommend you change the subforum title. And if it isn't changed, then I'm off to get a hamburger and milkshake and will be forgetting about it in due course
In due respect, the 288 and 308 engines are Dino engines and are directly related. Well this is where the grey area begins, wouldn't you say? I am trying to find a middle ground between our positions. The XX cars are experimental, riding the limbo area between race car and road car. What are they? To my knowledge Group B was banned and the 288 never had it's day in sun in that respect. It was homologated for a non-existent series once it was "ready." However in my opinion a 599GTO could easily pose as a homologated version of a Ferrari GT car were such a series in existence. It is at most a tribute car, as is the 288. But hey, man, have a beer!
The 599XX is certainly not in any limbo area - it is NOT a road car full stop. It is a track car only. Surely that is obvious to you???
With all due respect but that's not correct imo. By no means can one compare the GTB to a GTO. You can't even compare a HGTE to a GTO. Two different cars. The GTB and HGTE are great GT's. The GTO is a super GT and blows you away on a track. It's so much more than a GT when you let it go on a track. Does the GTO belong in the section of the Super Ferrari's? From what I read here "super Ferrari's" is a section created on a Forum. As I have said before, Ferrari gave it the badge GTO. If they think it is worthy of that badge then they must have been convinced that they built something very special and in my opinion ... they built a "super package". Seriously, while driving the GTO one is constantly reminded that as an owner it is a privilege to own and drive this machine. Guys, this is a V12 mounted in the front and boy, does it handle well. It handles just perfect. Leave it in the section of the 599/612. I really don't care. For me, personally, it's a super, great, fabulous, fantastic, breath taking Ferrari making you look forward to each engine start up and the pleasure you will be getting back from it. Just my .02.
It is not beyond a race car. Far from it. It is designed to engage the driver rather than for absolute speed under applicable regs (because there are no regs for a track day special). The 599XX is all about electronics, feedback and aero. Driver can monitor what percentage of the car's potential he/she is utilising with the amount of aids that are engaged. Idea is to go same speed with less aids. I spent 2 hours with Mr. Felisa specifically on the 599XX. You are the one who said it is between a road car and a race car. Now you say it is beyond a race car. It is not. It is an ultimate track day car. 599XX days are basically very fun ultimate track days
