News

599 Running Strange any ideas?

Discussion in '612/599' started by DXB599, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    My 2010 599 suddenly has started to run strange. It starts fine and the "OK" lights up, but its clearly way down on power and not revving properly. No error messages visible or strange noises. I've disconnected the battery and waited overnight to see if it would reset, but no change. Any ideas before I get it towed to the dealer?
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. F612

    F612 Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2018
    478
    Leeds,AL
    Full Name:
    David D. Hood
    My 612 did that.
    I learned to wait for it to run through its checklist before starting.
    All good now.
     
  4. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
    2,947
    Pittsburgh, PA
    All I can suggest is hooking it up to OBD, it might tell you whats going on.
     
  5. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Yes, that's exactly what I have done, but not running properly.
     
  6. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
    899
    near Chicago
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Did you check battery voltage.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Modena_2003

    Modena_2003 Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 16, 2008
    227
    Saudi.Arabia / London
    Full Name:
    Moe Al-Bayat
    How old is the battery?
     
  9. Teejay

    Teejay Rookie

    Sep 12, 2017
    17
    Full Name:
    Tim Jenner
    Check your fuel filler cap is on tight.
     
  10. Samuel Misrasi

    Samuel Misrasi Karting

    Jun 7, 2019
    61
    Clinton, Utah
    Full Name:
    Samuel Misrasi
    I’m guessing one of the fuels pumps is failing, or has failed.
     
  11. treue

    treue Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2004
    275
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Tom Treue
    D,

    Agree with Sam. The 599 has a left AND a right fuel pump which, individually, feed the left and right banks of cylinders. Same in my (former) 430. The 430's right pump started leaking and the engine would run roughly (right bank not getting enough fuel?). I changed the right pump and it ran fine right up to the moment that that part of the engine bay caught fire. I am certain I got things back right, but Occham would disagree. Smell gas after a drive? If it is a fuel pump and you do the work yourself, be careful everything goes back correctly and always carry a good fire extinguisher (like an Amerex Halotron) in the car. I do. Now.

    Tom
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Less than a year
     
  14. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Sounds like I will need to take it in for service. No gas smell at all, but seems like a logical conclusion that at least one fuel pump has issues.
     
  15. Teejay

    Teejay Rookie

    Sep 12, 2017
    17
    Full Name:
    Tim Jenner
    Did you check fuel cap is tight? I had exactly same symptons after refuelling, turned out attendant hadn't replaced cap properly. Search previous thread '599 limp mode' to see it's happened before.
     
  16. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Will certainly check this out. Travelling at the moment and will check once I return. Thank you.
     
  17. HK Mondial

    HK Mondial Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 12, 2007
    71
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mark M.
    Got back from a month overseas - first drive car was low on power, unresponsive, even A/C wasn't performing correctly.
    I checked the battery ( it was turned off whilst I was away ) and found it was less than half charged, according to my battery tender.
    Charged it overnight back to full charge, connected it back up and drove it again today. All problems gone !
    As the battery wasn't new when I got the car a few years ago, I think it's time to replace it ........
     
  18. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Finally had some time to investigate further. Gas cap was fine and installed correctly. I pulled the battery out and put it on the charger for 24 hours as I don't have an electrical plug nearby to charge the battery while in the car. Reinstalled the fully charged battery the next day and the car ran great for about 15 minutes and then I got a message in the dash screen that the catalyst was too hot and then it went back to having little power like before.

    Any thoughts on the error message?
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,015
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    On older Ferraris like my 575M, that is often the sign of a bad catalyst ECU. I just replaced both of mine.
     
  20. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Thanks Taz.
     
  21. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,401
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #18 4th_gear, Sep 2, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    A damaged battery with a “surface charge” problem will only charge the “skin” of the lead plates before the battery charger will “think” it’s fully charged and then end the bulk charge phase of charging. The car will then run great for a brief period and go back to running rough, because the ignition system in your car will likely retard the ignition timing. Other electrical systems will suffer from low voltage. If you live in snow country in winter, your car will not even restart if you thought everything was back to normal and then took the car out, parked it somewhere. This happens A LOT.

    You live in Dubai and that’s why you have avoided this fate.

    From what I know about batteries with 50% discharge and the factory supplied battery tender is that those batteries CANNOT be recharged properly by such chargers because they need to be reconditioned and those chargers do not have the RECOND charging mode which must be manually activated by the user. Also, unless you have an aftermarket high end CTEK charger, it takes longer than 24 hours to recharge a dead (50%) battery.

    Most drivers do not understand batteries, battery tenders and battery chargers.

    BTW, your exhaust cats CAN overheat if the engine runs too lean. Ignition timing that is retarded WILL cause overheating. This is called “retarded overheating”.
     
  22. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Battery is less than one year old and was recharged on a normal battery charger and not my CTEK tender. The battery charger indicated fully charged. What I'm unsure about was whether the catalyst too hot error message occurred first and then the car went back to limp mode, or if perhaps it was still battery related and both occurred at virtually the same time.
     
  23. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,401
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Was the battery fully charged when it was originally put in service? For instance, my battery was only 2-3 months old when it died within 7 days of my taking delivery. In my case, the battery was not fully charged when I took delivery and the battery tender was the wrong tender for my car and was unable to properly recharge the battery. So despite being new, the battery was never operated with a full charge. Failure was a guarantee.

    As regards your battery being recharged by a regular charger; what kind of charger was it? If your battery had a surface charge condition and needed to be reconditioned, no amount of regular charging is going to fully recharge it or correct the surface charge condition. Not all chargers have a recondition charging mode.

    Battery chargers also do not automatically invoke a recondition mode charging cycle unless the operator manually sets the charger to recondition the battery. This is because the recondition charging cycle will damage a battery if it is used too often. So you have to consciously determine the battery truly needs to be reconditioned and then set the charger to recondition mode. You will notice the battery will also get hot during the reconditioning process and it's a good idea to keep an eye on it while it is being reconditioned... to make sure there is adequate venting of any vapours from the car and to watch for damage to the battery casing or a leak.

    The usual cause for the cats being too hot is overly lean combustion, and lean combustion is usually due to incorrect engine tuning or a weak battery. The 599 has a V12 so it will require more spark plug pulses than V8 or V6 engines hence a weak battery will have greater impact on the V12 engine. If you look at the newer V12 cars, they put a great emphasis on strong electrical systems.
     
  24. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Batteries are cheap and easy enough to replace, to rule out any charging issues. Thanks for details.
     
  25. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,401
    Full Name:
    Michael
    That's true.

    However, to be 100% sure you should have your car battery tested by the dealer using the special Ferrari-branded EXP-899 battery tester made by Midtronics. You can only get a usable battery test reading on a Ferrari if the EXP-899 is used because it has to factor in the passive current that the car draws on the battery even when the ignition is off. This varies from FCar model to FCar model.

    The test only takes 5 minutes to run. This is what dealers use this tester for so it is standard operating procedure. It also tests the charging system in your car.

    IMO the best thing to do is to bring the car in to the dealer, have them test the battery on an EXP-899 in front of your eyes. The tester produces a printed readout. Here are shots of this process on my car. Your battery may just need to be properly recharged or reconditioned. However, if your battery is deemed not suitable to recharge, you should then have it replaced and have the dealer run the same test to verify the new battery's condition. Again, it only takes 5 minutes. Once you have done all this you can be sure you know the condition of your battery, of your car's charging system and eliminate the possibility of a bad battery or an insufficiently charged battery.

    I also suggest you review the capability of the battery tender that you have been using. If you are still using the original Ferrari tender, there are now many cheaper, much more capable tenders offered by CTEK.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    FWIW, shown below is a CTEK battery table explaining what each battery tender/charger and battery condition can be used to service. I believe the 599 GTB battery is normally spec'd for 75Ah capacity. It is also my experience that at the time when the 599GTB came to market Ferrari only supplied CTEK battery tenders equivalent to XC800 and XS800 models. Looking at this table, you can see the XC800/XS800 cannot recharge batteries (RED boxes) rated higher than 60Ah. They can only act as tenders to maintain their charge (table shows "MAX maintain" up to 100Ah batteries). As you see, it will take the XC800/XS800 60 hours (2.5 days) to fully recharge even a discharged 60Ah battery.

    Please note this table does not address the need for reconditioning a battery suffering from a surface charge condition.
    FWIW, there was also an optional special battery charger (part#177792) that was available in a typical Ferrari leather kit bag but it was not standard equipment. I do not know the specs for this charger but it's expensive, over USD 1,000 which is several times the cost of a high end smart CTEK charger that also feature a RECOND mode.

     
    DRYHOLE and of2worlds like this.
  26. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,015
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The optional Zivan chargers were only available up until late CY 2007 when the CTEKs became standard. They were no particularly reliable and used special connectors.
     
  27. DXB599

    DXB599 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2015
    348
    Dubai
    Update - fully charged existing battery and then went on a 2 hour drive. Car ran magnificently and no error codes. Love affair rekindled. :)
     

Share This Page