$6.00 / mile not including gas or the price of the car.

Joel

Don't feel too bad about your running costs - mine are about $12 per mile in the last year! I too intend to reduce this with some regular motoring.

Aidan

 

OK thats ENOUGH! We' are NOT going to start this crap!

If we keep talking about costs per mile then I'll have to go figure it out and after doing some quick math in my inebriated head I don't think I'm going to like the answer.
So move on and go post on another thread.

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED!

 

You guys are freaking kidding right?! That is WAY worse than an E-type ever hoped to be! One thing is for sure, I don't EVER, EVER want to hear anyone say a 928 is expensive to run! I have put 17,000 miles on my 1994 928 GTS since Dec '97 and it has a total of 50,000 miles on it right now. I had an extended warranty that covered a $3300 service so here is the cost per mile WITH that service and tires, but NOT insurance or gas $.48/mile driven by me!!! If you take OUT that $3300 since I did not pay it (though I guess I should factor back IN the cost of the policy which I didn't do but it was roughly half of the cost of that service or maybe a bit more) the total is $.28/mile driven. Include the policy and you will basically split that in half for $.38/mile!!! Gas in the '94 is about $.25/mile at current prices... So real time less insurance is $.70/mile!

WOW, I LOVE my 928's!

James
Austin, TX

 

Just my opinion, but these sorts of analyses are silly. My house cost $550K - bought
it four years ago. How much have I spent each night I'm in my bed? The expensive
painting in my living room - how much did I pay for every time I laid my eyes on it?
(Gee I should look at it more so the price goes down!). You can go on and on and
on like this and just make yourself crazy.

To me, my Ferrari is my big-boy-toy. I bought it, I own it, I fix it, I drive it, I enjoy
it. And someday I'll be dead and buried and none of this will matter a hill of beans.
So I live for now and get all the enjoyment that my life and family brings to me and
don't sweat about 'stuff'.

Get out there and DRIVE the car and don't make yourself miserable! Enjoy your life
that has afforded you even the CHANCE to own a car like this. There's an awful
lot of people in this world who will NEVER have to worry about the 'cost to drive
a Ferrari'. Keep things in perspective.

Meant only has a happier way to view all this

Jedi

 

Jedi,

I agree for the most part. I participated in the analysis because I was curious for my sake what a GTS might cost per mile to maintain during my ownership. Turns out NOT BAD!

My F-car concern is that it will make the 928 look like child's play! Of course there is the deal where you just bought the car and it needed $10k of work and you have driven it 100 miles since the work was done. That is NOT FAIR! I would like to know about cars that are driven regularly and to the tune of about 2000-6000 miles per year. If there ARE any FERRARI (not even thinking only about 400's here) that even fit that bill...and how much it costs per mile or per year or whatever to keep them up.

Are 400's prone to idiotic and expensive regular failures of some kind in particular??? Are they solid cars that can be fairly well counted on for good weekend use? Could you use one for a DD if so inclined. When you see stuff like $6/mile or whatever it kind of makes you think, do I even want to venture down that path. Most of the stories seem to support the 400 as a pretty solid car that can infact be used for DD type work from time to time, but probably not for long stretches.

Sure my 928's have had problems now and again, but they are rare and by exotic car standards (though some might not consider the 928 or ANY Porsche an "exotic" car...not even sure I do really) the problems are minimal annoyances at most! They are SUPER easy to live with, super fun to drive, and really easy on the eyes...BUT, they are NOT a Ferrari! They don't have V12 sounds to die for or nearly the mystique and I always promised myself I would own a Ferrari. Now is that time!

James
Austin, TX

 

Try owning a boat. I took my boat (33 Ft Donzi with twin 500's and a 176 gallon tank) from the warehouse to the marina last weekend. I had my olny real chance of the season to by cheaper ($4.00 a gallon mind you) gas (river gas is about $.50 per gallon more expenvive). After the first $100 when the BP pump automatically shuts off, I looked and saw that it was only 25 gallons. I thouhgt.....that might get me down to the Hooters on the river and back for a bite to eat. After I walked my card into to attendent and said "let it run", I put another $450 in the tank. I was of course standing there thinking....."this is crazy". WIthin 30 minutes, BP's fraud department called me to report a potential unauthorised use of my card as someone just ran up $550 in gas.

The summer before last I broke two racing outdrives by hitting unseen stuff floating in the water. That was $8,000 per side. If I want to add speed to the boat (as in a boat is really the only legal public place you can utilize the full speed of your vehical) modifications cost about $1,000 for every 1 mph in top speed you want to gain.

None of us have any of these hobbies because they are economical. I doubt that any of us are spending our last dollars on our cars or other toys. At least I hope not anyhow. Now I guess I do respect the concept of trying to make your run cost for your hobby as low as possible. But I can help but agree with Dave. WHy make yourself nuts over this? Frankly, I have always felt my time was best spent on ways to make my business better and make more money than checking on how i am spending it.
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James - I've parsed your post down to the key points. I think you fit the profile of MANY 'want
to buy a Ferrari' folks. You want to own the name, you want to be part of a mystique, you like
cool cars and have 'scraped the surface' by getting into 928s. But you're finding that your
personal economics make even the 'low end' seem out of reach, and even "10k in service" would
make it "unfair" if you found yourself there.

But like many in your position, you are missing an important point! Even the low end of Ferraris
(400i, Mondial, 3x8) are EXPENSIVE - to buy, to run, to service. But how many P 928 owners
think the same? It's all they can do to buy one, but Please God Don't Let it Break! You can
now do a 928 with financial comfort, but you yearn for the 'next level'. I can guarantee you that
somewhere in this world a Ferrari F40 owner YEARNS to own an Enzo, but just can't make it
fit his financial situation.

So what I'm saying is WAIT. Work hard, save money, stay focused on the dream, and when
it no longer seems a stretch, you'll know.

I DID just buy a car ('86) that needed 10K in service (actually, by August it will be at $14,000,
not including flying out to buy it, shipping, and all the running expense). But the whole thing
has been a cash deal for me - I'm not bragging, I'm making the point that I am not nervous
about repairs or thinking it unfair. I waited to a point in my life (I'm 46) where it made sense
to own a Ferrari. But an F40 is simply not attainable. Nor an F430. Not even an older 355.
I had to stay in my budget, so that meant 328 GTS.

Lastly, there is not a dang thing wrong with a well-tuned 928! Gorgeous car, great engineering,
and an undervalued car. Same with a 911 slantnose, or a decent 930. ALL good cars, with
parts you can mostly buy at Auto Zone or the local Porsche dealer, not to mention a zillion
parts cars. The fact a 928 is not an exotic works in your favor if 'cost per mile' is a big concern.
And all of these P cars you can drive the pants off with nowhere near the worries of a Ferrari
with high mileage.

I spent many years where you seem to be now. I dreamed of saying "I own a Ferrari". But
eventually I was able to make it happen comfortably, with no worries about service budget.
Yeah, I would prefer I could have done it in my 20s! Oh well.

Hang in there - don't settle for the bottom of the barrel and have to watch it rot because
you can't afford the upkeep.

Again, all good - no ill intended here at all.

Jedi

 

As a kid a had a TR7 (no, i didn't drive it with a bag over my head), that needed a head retorque/gasket every time i thought of driving it. Anguish per mile is a better gauge of what really matters, because sometimes money/effort can't fix a poor design, which is not the case for 400's or most Fcars for that matter. Money spent with a qualified service outfit should ammortize itself nicely, i think...if you drive the thing.

 

Joel, From what I have gathered the 400 caps are even more rare and expensive than the BB Boxer caps which bolt on with exactly the same specs. as the 400, the only diffrence being the firing order marked on the cap is diffrent. My car and many others have these BB caps on them with no issue intell the mechanic or owner sees the firing order not match up. This board and fellow posters got me over my panic when I first saw that.




My 86 year old neighbor has a 1967 Dodge truck he had since it was new, he just sold it. When asked why he said he did the math and he had paid $14 a mile to drive it last year. I do not think I would feel a 1967 Dodge truck is beyond me based on my neighbor paying for full cover insurance and regs. and only driving it to the emmissions test.
We all relate to Joel's experince at one time with a toy car (or boat). #'s are always changing and experince is hard to quantify.
My 400I has been more fun and more expensive than I imaganed

 

Jedi,

Thanks for the input. I am 43 and glad that I will be able to make that jump into Ferrari land sooner rather than later (though it already seems like later to me!)

If I said "unfair" well, that was just stupid of me... It is what it is...not unfair or otherwise, just IS!

You are absolutely right when I tell folks I drive 928's and I have half a dozen of them and take them all to the race track and race one of them, yada, yada, yada...they think I must be a millionaire or something to keep up with them. This thread just got me thinking about that as I have not *knocking on wood RIGHT NOW* really had any significant problems with ANY of them. Little stuff here and there, but it has never been a situation where I dropped it off at the shop and came back to $3k even on a bill... Well, that one time, but it was almost all covered on the warranty I bought for the car.

So, as I look into F-car land I am just wondering how over blown the "Ferrari's are so expensive to maintain" mantra has been??? Sure if something big lets go it will cost you. As you noted there are TONS of 928 parts cars out there (of all years really, though I perish the thought of trying to find a used 5.4L GTS motor!) and clearly that is not the case with 400's, but realistically how much needs to be done on a regular basis and how much does it really cost vs. this guy has a Ferrari that I am working on so I am going to soak him because clearly he is "rich"...

When I pay cash for a 400 the end of the year as long as it does not eat its motor I should be able to manage the rest...but you know that whole cold feet thing...

Thanks guys, this really is a great forum and great group!
James

 

I think your head is in the right place. Proceed with knowlegable caution and just be prepared. There are folks here
that drive F-cars year in and year out without a single need except an oil change. Timing belts are the biggest concern,
as the engine is 'full interference' - break a belt and all those valves and all those pistons meet for a punk party slam
dance, and it's all over. A 400i full rebuild if that were to happen is going to be probably $25,000, give or take. Just
plan to put aside $2k or $3k a year for when it needs a belt service ($4K up to $10K - many variables).

It's really just that when things break on a Ferrari, they tend NOT to be reasonable to fix! My own car has a bad
vacuum advance in the Microplex ECU. Last 'new price' of the Microplex was $3300. They are now no longer made,
so the only option is used for $1500 or so. A pair of glass fog light lenses on a 328 runs around $1600. Even a
good condition original owner's manual will run $275 on Ebay!

But you get it I'm sure - fixing hand-built limited edition cars, regardless of brand, is ALWAYS going to cost a LOT
more than fixing mass-produced production cars like the P 928 (IIRC they made around 60,000 of them in all).

Just promise if you buy a Ferrari you'll fix things as they break! Nothing worse than yet another F-car deteriorating
owner by owner until it is only good for a parts car.

Good luck in your quest,

Jedi

 

You are right on about the 928 production...worldwide was like 58,000 or close to that from '77 (as '78 MY cars) through '95... What the total build for 400's??? 1/10th of that? YEOW!

As for repairs... Well, I am compulsive about stuff like that...I can't help myself!

Thanks Jedi and all the rest of you F-car studs!
James

 

Nope. 1/3d of even that! According a table in one of my Ferrari books, here's the breakdown:

1976-1979 400 GT ... 147
400 Auto ... 355

1979-1985 400i GT ... 422
400 Auto ... 883 (biggest production of all)

1985-1989 412 GT ... 576

Porsche 928 - (all variations) - 61,056 worldwide

So the total series was: 2,590 !!! - yup, no comparison by numbers...

Jedi

 

OMG! That is amazing! Ferrari sells more 430's than that IN A YEAR!!! That really is an amazing stat when you think about it!

Thanks for the numbers, I had not seen that before.
James

 

here here, I agree, this not a valid line of questions.

 

Joel,
Things get odd here so bear with me. On the single distributor 12 cylinder engine in these cars Ferrari uses a rotor with two electrodes as opposed to the common rotor with one, so in this two electrode rotor it delivers the spark power two one side of the distributor then almost 180 degrees to the other side then almost 180 to the other side and so on. So the firing order given in the repair manual, 1-7-5-11-3-9-6-12-2-8-4-10 is this back in forth placement on the cap for the spark plug wires, way two confusion.
So another more common way to which ease easer is If you have the # 1 spark plug wire located on the distributor cap, go in a clock wise direction placing the wires 1-12-5-8-3-10-6-7-2-11-4-9 and you will achieve this back in forth firing order that Ferrari specifies in the book in a way that is much easer.
Now to make things even more confusing, like I mentioned earlier, BB boxer caps are sold many time for these 400’s and they have a different firing order marked on the caps that just has to be ignored.
So that you know the way Ferrari # cylinder it is like this


7 8 9 10 11 12
Front of car

6 5 4 3 2 1
#1 being right front most cylinder working back in a ‘U’ then forward again.

 

James those are PRODUCTION numbers. Let's get serious, take a look at the below. That is how many are LEFT in the US.


.
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Hi Joel,

May be that my thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168666 can be of some interest related to your question.

Peter