6 Speed Vs. Paddles

Sorry, automatic refers to method of operation, not internal mechanicals.
By your defintion any tranny is a manual since you can shift slushboxes by use of paddles or shifter. Sorry, paddle cars have more in common with slushboxes than true manuals. Substituting a computer and hydraulic operated clutch for a torque converter doesn't make it a manual.

Dave

PS: I've driven everything from bugs to big rigs without using the clutch pedal. It is easier to get it moving with the starter motor. I had to do this once with a 328 when the cable broke.

Dave

 

If one wants to be didactic anything that requires the use of hands is manual. (from the Latin I believe)
Semantics aside we are talking about two different things here gear selection and means of transmission.
A box that will shift for itself under certain circumstances is an automatic.
Traditional auto boxes have used torque converters and not clutches.
As means of actuation paddles or stick can be used with any of the above.

A number of modern cars (no offense meant) have an interlock that will not allow the starter to spin when the clutch is engaged so they can't be moved by the starter.

 

I don't find my F1 boring, I think it adds variety to my (very small collection of) cars. I now have two manuals, a syncro-less dog box, and an paddle-shifted Ferrari. I like that better than 4 of a kind.

Thanks!

Well, since my car as never been in automatic mode since the day I bought it, I guess that makes it a manual.

And seriously Dave, you cannot possibly say that a car with a torque converter drives anything like a car with a solid engaging clutch, regardless of how the clutch and gear selection is operated. That's about like saying that front drive and rear drive feel the same.

I wonder if the same discussions took place when synchros came out and eliminated the need for double declutching. I don't see many folks ordering 430s without synchros, and I don't hear too many complaining that the current manuals are sissy and uninteresting.

 

can someone tell me how a transmission that will go all the way to red line if not manually directed otherwise is an "automatic" ??

 

Didn't mean to imply that at all. The level of control a clutch allows is IMHO the biggest difference.
I've had similar thoughts about the advent of synchromesh. I'm sure that those able to use a crash box scoffed at those who needed such help making clean changes.
My daily driver is a BMW and while I have a three pedal car I'm constantly surprised at those owners who insist that the paddle shifted auto-box is a manual transmission.
With the new dual clutch box in the Cali I suspect that the F1 box won't be seen in any more new Ferraris.

 

Crud, now we are getting Dave and David confused. I agree with David and seriously disagree with Dave, and J Salmon was disagreeing with Dave, not David. We need a bloody score card. My 575M has never been in Auto mode, either.

Never tried to start a car moving with the starter. Thought still scares me. My old VW (67) would not have budged if I had tried that and the car started fine in neutral.

At least Fred and I are agreeing on things and we probably would get along great over a beer.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

My Tundra p/u has a "sequential" shift automatic. I can shift "manually" and, yes, it will go to redline if I choose to do so. Or I can leave it in auto mode, just as you can a paddle equipped Ferrari.

Dave

 

See my response to Vunico.

Yes, clutch equipped cars drive differently from torque converter equipped cars but if they shift automatically, they are both automatics. If a slush box equipped car has paddles (some do), it is just as much a manual as the clutch equipped car with paddles. I have driven trucks with no synchros, even twin trannies with two sticks, and drove them mostly without using the clutch pedal except for starts, so I'll accept my manly award now, thank you.

Dave

 

I do it pretty often when 4wheeling with my Land Cruiser, I also kill engine in gear, avoiding using the clutch. You can see this guy starting his truck in gear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUqs2lvKsI0

 

This switch is usually attached to the pedal, not the pressure plate.
If the connection (linkage) between the pedal and PP is broken, the switch will still operate with the pedal.

 

We would most likely argue over Import or Domestic ;-)

 

There are Shift Kits for the traditional definition of automatic transmissions which will do this.
These retain the torque converter.

 

HUH?

 

I would have thought a new Ferrari would have premium on the stick due to the low production numbers. Go Figure?
Personally, if we ever have the cash to buy another Ferrari, it will want it to have a stick.
As for my Italian wife, she wouldn't be caught dead in an automatic, but she doesn't mind the idea of the paddle shifters.

On aside, I just happened to see this thread a few days ago in the Models section:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234409

The thread is basically about new Piloti driving shoes for $33 shipped (get them while you can!). Mine came yesterday. Due to the salt I tested the shoes with our subaru wagon. I had a blast practicing everything I could think of, but mostly trying to smoothly heel-toe double-clutch-downshift through all of the gears while under moderate braking. Would I have had that much fun slapping little paddles on the wheel? I doubt it.

Dave

 

I have always felt a significant disconnect between the throttle motion and response when there is a torque converter in the way. I know that some newer cars (AMGs I think) lock up to TC to eliminate this. At least when it is in gear, my 355 has the same throttle response as the manual car does. And yes, you can absolutely have the manly award, based purely on the two trannies truck

Dave, you would not have had as much fun, but at least the 355 would still require the footwork to blip on the downshifts.


Beers all around!

 

Make mine an Alaskan Amber. Thank you.

Dave

 

Why not an Italian Peroni?
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Weihenstephaner Kristall Weissbier for me. From the world's oldest brewery, founded in 1040.

I like Peroni, as well.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I had a '79 308 before I got my 328, and one day in ABQ the clutch just -d i e d-...

Turned out the clutch cable done broked itself in two...

Fortunately, just a few weeks before, I'd read an article in one of the mainstream auto mags about
shifting without a clutch(new to me then). So, I limped home via clutch-less shifting, and the couple of
times I stopped at lights, I killed the engine then slipped the motor into 1st gear. Turning on the motor
caused the car to lurch forward a bit, enabling me to shift into 2nd gear and be on my way.

Probably looked a bit funny, but it worked just fine. Wouldn't wanna do that too often, but in a crunch,
is okey dokey.

 

Same thing happened to me in my first 328 about 10 years ago. I knew how to shift without a clutch from my truck driving days but didn't think about how to get it going. I called my mechanic who explained it to me and I was on my way. The only difference was, I started it 2nd after the first time in 1st to avoid the lurching.

Dave

 

Dave, AMA- Very interesting. Never had a clutch cable break on my 308 GTS. Will have to remember that, but no cable on my 575M. One disadvantage of F1 is limp home modes are very limited if the clutch gives up. No gears selectable in some cases, and you really need first gear with an F1 shifter to start. Second gear makes for very smelly and expensive departures.

Had the throttle cable break on my Dino 246 GT, but just used something to jam the throttle open to 2000 rpm and limped home that way. Pretty basic car, just like the 308/328, only more so.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I just found this clip on youtube and thought I would post it here. Basically another Japanese video (this case a 355) with 3 cameras in the car and one showing the driver's footwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUU0aW3yyMc&feature=related

For comparison, here is one with paddle shifters. You decide which is more cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzs8JhW25ys

Dave

 

For me, its all about how long I plan on keeping the car and what it ultimately will cost. Undoubtedly, something in the tranny may break. Cost to fix F1 = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, Cost to fix Std = $$$$. Thus, I own a Std shifter 355, and not an F1. Don't really give a crap how many milliseconds it takes for me to shift!

 

how do you out a paddle shift car in to reverse?

 

Dersono- On early F1 shifters, there is a small, spring-loaded "T" handle on the center console you pull back and then release to select reverse. On later model F1 shifters, there is a push-button to select reverse.

Taz
Terry Phillips