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60's and 70's Maserati Factory Replacement Engines

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Candide, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    Hi All,

    We all know some people were not satisfied with their engines, o broke it, for any reason.

    A few, above all in Europe, had their engine replaced AT the Factory in Modena.

    So, the Factory put inside new engines.

    What about the chassis serial number stamped for example at the upper front left side on V8 engines? (I don't speak about the inner engine number that we can find in the inside too).

    I understood that there were 3 variations :

    1- original chassis nuumber stamped on the blank engine,

    2- not existing chassis number stamped to avoid the risk oh having 2 blocks bearing someday the same chassis number, (example AM115/5000 fo a new engine in a Ghibli)

    3- they let the block blank, w/ no chassis number at all.

    Question in the question, beacuse we are expertising the case down there :

    4- did any engines ready to fit with an already non existing chassis number stamped ?

    I explain, would have it been possible to put in an Indy or Ghibli for example, an engine aleady stamped with an AM107 non existing chassis number ?

    In the present case, the engine is stamped with an official Factory replacement number : AM107/A * 1600*, and is NOT in an AM107 model.

    I was confirmed by one AM107 Specialist that the "A" was used to state Factory Replacement Engine".

    Hope I have been clear enough.

    Gazie Mille.
     
  2. Foncool

    Foncool Karting

    Oct 27, 2011
    239
    The engines were stamped with their “base” number regardless of which model car they were mounted. Wet sump motors were 107, Dry sump 115.
     
    Candide likes this.
  3. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    Thank you vey much !

    Where did you get this info pls ? It's important to know the reliability of the source.
     
  4. Foncool

    Foncool Karting

    Oct 27, 2011
    239
    The next 4 numbers should then match the vin number of the chassis, that will tell you if it’s the correct engine
     
  5. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    The 4 next numbers refer to a non-existing chassis.
     
  6. FastFreddie

    FastFreddie Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2010
    288
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Fredric Gustafsson
    Do you have the classiche documents from the factory?
    On my old khamsin, the engine was changed on warranty the first year of it’s life. On the official documents the old engine number was changed by hand to the new one. But you could still see the old number below. Would that be considered ”matching numbers”?
     
  7. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    We have no Classiche docts for that car, unfortunately.

    For me a matching number engine is an engine we have the tracability fom the Factory.

    If it bears w/o any doubt the same number than the chassis, it's a Must.

    But there are so many different ways of numbereing (or not) at Maserati's these times...
     
  8. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,363
    Hershey, PA
    How about posting the number? Someone here might be able to tell you where it possibly originated?
     
  9. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    66
    Belgium
    Your engine number is actually AM107/A *1544*, so apparently a replacement engine for chassis 1544 (not 1600 as you stated before).

    Here is the corresponding picture for the engine of my Indy 4.9.
    The engine is a 107/49 base, meaning the wet sump V8 with 4900 cc, *2054* being the number of the Indy car:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    The chassis number is, as expected for matching numbers, AM116/49 *2054*, AM116/49 corresponding to Indy's with the 4900 engine:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    1544 doesn't exist with AM107 cars...

    1600 was an example. So as not stating at that moment the real number.

    It doesn't change anything on that matter.
     
  11. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    On another hand, do I understand well ? You have 2 different numbers on your engine ?
     
  12. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,363
    Hershey, PA
    The 107 simply states the base model of the engine in this case series 1 Quattroporte. In addition to the S1 QP, it was also used in the Mexico, Indy and Bora all of which have 107 stamped engines. It’s been a while and I could be wrong but the A may indicate that it is a 4.7. The 1544 is the chassis, I would guess probably from an Indy.

    Ivan you want to correct or confirm me here?
     
  13. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    66
    Belgium
    No there is only one number on the engine that is AM107/49 *2054*.
    As said by Italiancars, the engine model is AM107, it's the wet sump model that started on the QP (which is an AM107 Maserati model), here a 107/49 because it's a 4.9 engine.
    The chassis series is AM116 because it's an Indy.
    *2054* is the actual number of the car (associated with the two previous model identifications, either of the engine or of the car).
    So each classic Maserati has in principle two identification numbers, one for the engine and one for the chassis but both contain the same last *number* in the series, here *2054*
    Some, like the QP that started with the V8, may have only one identification number such as AM107 *....*
    Hope I was clear enough;)
     
  14. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    No, each Classic Maserati has only one number matching on the chassis and engine. At least on Ghiblis. (Fon't know for the others).

    For example, I have AM115/49*1726* only, on both my chassis and engine.
     
  15. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    I've just checked again the engine number.

    And took a better pic.

    It doesn't read "A" but "1".

    So, number is : AM107/1 *1544* :

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Then, what does mean "1" ??????????????????
     
  16. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    66
    Belgium
    #17 Froggie, Nov 14, 2018 at 3:59 AM
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018 at 4:07 AM
    I see I was not clear enough...
    Let's try differently.

    What I stated was the possibility of two prefixes, even for "matching numbers" cars.
    For my car (an Indy), this is through two different prefixes (AM107 and AM116, for the engine and the chassis respectively).
    This is because Indy's use the same base engine (wet sump) that was first installed on the QP (AM107).
    But the specific last number of the car (*2054* in my case) will appear on both complete numbers, of the engine and of the chassis, and they will "match".

    In my last but one sentence, I said: Some, like the QP that started with the V8, may have only one identification number such as AM107 *....*
    It's also the case of the Ghibli (AM115) that started with the dry sump engine.
    Ghibli's have a unique prefix that is AM115 that will also be the prefix for the other dry sump V8 engines of that period.
    Any matching numbers Khamsin will also have its engine number starting with AM115 while its chassis number will start by AM120. This is because Khamsin's have the dry sump engine that started on Ghibli's.

    Incidentally that was discussed in more detail by Enrico in the link below:
    http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri06xxxxxx.htm

    Now obviously your Ghibli has an unconventional engine because of the "1".
    However if the engine number of your car would be AM115/1 *1544* (so with the same ending number *1544* than on your chassis), I would say that it had a factory replacement still qualifying for matching numbers.

    BUT, if I understand correctly your last statements:
    For example, I have AM115/49*1726* only, on both my chassis and engine.
    And also:
    I've just checked again the engine number....So, number is : AM107/1 *1544*
    I would say that your car doesn't have matching numbers as the last identification numbers are not the same on the chassis (*1726*) and on the engine (*1544*).

    Even more, it is not certain that your replacement engine would be a dry sump 4.9 engine because its prefix is characteristic of wet sump engines (AM107) and does not contain the number 49 after the /.
    But that would be very surprising as the assembly of a wet sump engine on a Ghibli would not be straightforward, not to say impossible...
    Hope that helps
     
  17. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    Clear.

    However, 4,7L Ghibli are wet sump and have AM115 full matching chassis number on.
     
  18. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    Thank you very much fo the link.
     
  19. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    As already mentionned on post #15, 1726 is full matching numbers, and colours.

    Engine 1544 is on another car.
     
  20. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    However, what's the difference between a 4.9 dry sump block and a 4.7 wet sump block ?

    Nothing I guess.

    1544 has dry sump, 4.9 intake and carbs.

    Heads & cams are identical.

    We did noy check yet the crankshaft.
     
  21. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,363
    Hershey, PA
    Is this engine in a Ghibli? If so would that car happen to be black or a dark color?
     
  22. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,363
    Hershey, PA
    Ghiblis never had a wet sump, only dry.
     
  23. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,363
    Hershey, PA
    I sent the picture to Fabio and he replied.

    Joe,
    This engine seems to be an Indy engine as you are supposing.
    Around the Indy engine numbers stamps there is a little confusion. I have already experienced some Indy 4,7 with the engine number code AM107/1.

    Should be nice if you can find on the engine the engine internal number (usually on the Indy engine block are present two engine internal numbers. One is stamped on a little plate riveted on the engine block, and the second is stamped on the block on top of the thermostat housing (or on the back of the engine block, left side near at the clutch bellhouse)).

    Try to find it and I'll better check.

    Ciao and have a nice day
    Fabio
     
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  24. Candide

    Candide Formula 3

    Apr 6, 2017
    1,402
    Monaco
    Yes, this engine is in a Ghibli. And it's not black.
     

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