612 buttons & dash - if or when?

Discussion in '612/599' started by Scout123, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Scout123

    Scout123 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2017
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  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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  3. Scout123

    Scout123 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2017
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    This is the Ferrari FF competition price wise.

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/715201056/overview/

    I'll drive the 612 OTO this Thursday, and may have to make a trip to drive an FF.

    Balancing spending around the 30k or more over other 612s to get into a 612 OTO with better transmition, etc. and believing it will retain value better, or buying a non OTO at a lessor price. Guess I need to decide if the OTO perks are worth it.

    I had 2009 Maserati GTS with the F1. My guess is that transmission was probably like the ones in 599s, and therefore the OTO. I could live with one in auto mode.
     
  4. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's not just the better transmission, also carbon ceramic brakes, panoramic roof, better sound system. I've had an early 612 and a 599, and the difference between that early 612 F1 and the 599 is dramatic. I don't think I could own an early F1 again, spoiled now. OTO is the only way to fly. I don't get a lot of agreement on this, but I think they'll appreciate well. FF is a bit of a polarizing abomination and they're not fixing it, will just morph into an SUV. So the 612 OTO is going to be the last Pinin 2+2 with the most refined F1 and the last 2+2 before Ferrari jumped the shark. OTO is a keeper.
     
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  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    I agree.

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  6. Scout123

    Scout123 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2017
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    Thanks. This advice helps a lot.
     
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  8. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    Keep in mind that there is the 07 and early 08 which has many of the improvements over the early 612 - not OTOs but you get carbon ceramic brakes with HGTC and you get the double DIN Bose navigation. The HGTC also has better/faster shifting than early 612s. Of course, the FF is an entirely different league. I almost traded my 07 HGTC 612 for a 2014 FF - the FF drives phenomenally but the design never really grew on me. If you are not opposed to the design of the FF, it is a far better car IMO, and I would suggest to drive one.
     
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  9. HKS479

    HKS479 Karting

    Sep 23, 2015
    83
    Zurich, Switzerland
    I was all set on buying an OTO for all the reasons given above. I was able to test drive about 6 OTOs. Then I drove an HGTC which i had originally discounted as it was not an OTO. As it turned out it was better than all the OTOs I had tested. It drove better, was the best condition and had a great service history. So I bought it. Yes, the gearbox on the OTO is very slightly better but you should not get hung up on it.

    Buy the best car you can find. If its an OTO then great but in my experience its not worth having over a better condition HGTC.


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  10. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2015
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    I am suprised you were able to find 6 OTO cars near you to test drive. While there are usually a few for sale it seems they are pretty well spread out over the US. Did the OTO cars you drove have the HGT2 option or they basic? It sounds like you got a car pretty close to the OTO w/o the magneto and glass roof. I am not sure if your car had the newer transmission with the HGTC option. It seems the HGT optioned changed over the years. On the earlier years I am pretty certain the HGT option did not have the newer transmission but I thought the 2007 Sessanta had the newer transmission? If so then perhaps the HGTC option in 2007 included the upgraded transmission? Taz would likely know the answer.
     
  11. HKS479

    HKS479 Karting

    Sep 23, 2015
    83
    Zurich, Switzerland
    There was quite a few OTOs for sale in Switzerland at the time. Probably 10 or so. I know they are quite rare in US. We are just fortunate I guess. Most of the ones I drove had the HGT2 pack but not all. They all would have had the latest gearbox (see below)

    My HGTC is 2006 so it has CCMs, upgraded suspension, faster shifting TCU, Sports Exhausts, etc.

    In terms of gearbox shift speeds I believe you had the following (data thanks to Taz):
    Early 612 - 180ms
    2005- 2007 HGTS/C - upgraded TCU - 150ms
    07 Sessanta and OTO - gearbox casing, twin plate clutch and TCU from 599 - 100ms

    So my car would be OTO minus glass roof, manetino, Bose stereo and the fastest shifting box. So the the box is pretty much the only difference from a driving point of view. Yes its slightly slower than the OTO but not to the point that it makes for a dramatically different driving experience. Don't forget these are maximum shift speeds. most of the time either box will be shifting in many 100s of milliseconds otherwise it would be horribly jerky and harsh.

    Like I said, its easy to get hung up on figures, I did, but in end I overcame that and made a decision based on my experience. The OTO is a really nice car and probably the best 612 from a driving and investment point of view but the HGTC is IMHO 95-98% of the driving experience. One could actually argue that having a large lump of glass right of the top of the car is not ideal and that an HGTC would handle better?
     
  12. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

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    I should have realized you are from Switzerland rather than the US. I think you are correct about your car being 98% of OTO. While I think the glass roof is kind of cool I am not so sure I would have ordered it as an option, as I never felt compelled to order a Porsche Targa either.
    I almost bought a 2007 Rosso very highly optioned 612 with the HGTC option but someone beat me to it. When I was looking I missed 3 cars by a matter of hours or a day before I found the car I purchased. You likely got a much better deal than I did since the supply is more in your country.
     
  13. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    The big difference in transmission has to do with how smoothly it shifts in low-stress situations (OTO is MUCH smoother) and the much stronger clutch on the OTO. The slightly faster shifting at high RPM is nice, but not that big of a deal.
     
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  15. HKS479

    HKS479 Karting

    Sep 23, 2015
    83
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Yes, you are correct. This is where you notice a difference. The setup of the TCU (PIS, etc.) in either case will also have an effect here. I've been told by two Ferrari techs that you don't want it too smooth. The smoother it is the more its slipping the clutch and therefore wearing it out faster :(
     
  16. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    They're not talking about the smoothness of a twin plate F1-S clutch when they said that. They're talking about sloppy F1's like the Maser QP clutches. There's no downside to the F1-S. Shifts beautifully and wears very minimally. If you drive it properly, it's a lifetime clutch.

    Just in terms of value though, the manettino steering wheel is a $40k item. I didn't list that on the pluses of the OTO because functionally it doesn't really matter, but it's cool to have. The electrochomic roof is super cool and a very expensive difference as well. I agree at least based on everything I've heard that that the HGTC cars drive beautifully. But there's two ways to look at it. For the difference in price between the HGTC and the OTO, it's a steal for the options you're getting. And it's a lower production run. The HGTC is the culmination of step upgrades/options on the base 612. The post Sessanta OTO's are a different, smaller production run with at least of a couple of very high priced, distinct differences from the base 612.
     
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  17. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    I think the 09 and 10 OTOs Def have a shot of appreciating - pretty special cars with limited numbers usually a good combo.

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  18. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

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    I think the OTO models have even gone up since I got my 2008.5 OTO in 8/2015. But perhaps I just got a killer deal on my car at least for the US.
    The black OTO cars always seem to have a bit softer pricing than most other colors. Maybe more black cars in the US?
     
  19. Scout123

    Scout123 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2017
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    Overall, I would agree that the OTO would be a slightly better car that will hold its value, or even go up in value. The OTO at Ferrari Denver, which they got two weeks ago and I was going to drive on Thursday, already had a deposit put down on it.

    I do agree that ones with HGTS would most likely meet my needs. Here is an 07 612 at Ferrari Phoenix that has cruise, heated seats, HGTS (I don't really need ceramics), nicely loaded (love the cross stitched seats):

    http://preowned.ferrari.com/us/US/search/2007/ferrari/612_scaglietti/nero-Scottsdale_Ferrari-ZFFJB54AX70155729
     
  20. southnc

    southnc Formula 3
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    I have a 2007 612 HGTS, and the sticky issues hit exactly 10 years after production - 2017.

    Thankfully, no leather pull-away issues on the dash or rear shelf so far.
     
  21. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

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    OHOH my car is 10 years old this year. No sticky issues so far and no leather shrinkage so far. I am crossing my fingers.
     
  22. r0sco

    r0sco Karting
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    I am starting to see the sticky problem appear on my '06 612. Thankfully no leather shrinkage yet.
     
  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    9 years in i havent seen any sticky issues or dash. that being said my car sees daylight maybe 4 times a year.
     
  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    My 2009 F430 is beginning to exhibit stickyitis.
     
  25. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    The doctors are in the house ;) :D
     
  26. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Its not quite ready but maybe another year and it might happen!
     
  27. greybeast

    greybeast Karting

    Nov 15, 2011
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    Long Island
    I remember reading somewhere in this section when I was shopping for my 612, that the total OTO number was closer to 80, for the US. And they were produced from late 2008 through early 2011 (where only a handful were delivered), the majority being 2009 and 2010 models.
     

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