Hey guys, I know there's been a bunch of talk about this topic and some interest. I thought I'd mention I just got through my second round of working on an 06 manual 612 and rebuilt the entire driveline. As part of this work, the torque tube needed to be rebuilt so rather than having my customer pay $6-8K for a new driveline, I was able to rebuild it to OEM spec with new bearings and set it up to spec. It turned out perfect. The transmission on his manual 612 had gone bad. I went through the entire tranny and decided it wasn't worth rebuilding so we procured a good known F1 trans and I converted it to manual. So, with the 612, I've begun to do a lot of driveline work and have been through the differences between the F1 and manual pretty closely. If anyone has any questions about a conversion from F1 to manual, or would like to pursue it, let me know. I can either chime in or am willing to undertake it. As for me, I will keep the 612 I own as an F1. It has been fun to drive the manual car though. In fact, since I just got the car together yesterday, I will be test driving it a bit this week to ensure all is well! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Have you looked into the availability of parts to carry out a conversion of an existing F1 car? Have a rough idea what the total bill for the conversion would be if you were to do it for a customer? How many miles on the manual 612 in your shop requiring a complete rebuild of the "driveline"?
Jason- All the F1 and three pedal Ferraris use the same transaxle, so swapping one for the other with the original shifter and clutch parts is fairly easy. The challenge on doing a complete conversion is the different Motronic ECUs, instrument panel settings, and just finding all the three pedal parts for an F1 to three pedal conversion. Relatively easy on a 360 where nearly 30% were three pedals and parts are easy to find. Much more difficult on an F430, 575M, 612, or 599 where so few three pedals were initially built.
Yes Taz, the tranny itself is internally the same. I had to strip off the F1 materials, move some rear cover studs around, dummy plug one hole that was present after removing an F1 related sensor and then transplant the shift linkage. Overall, this sub-portion of the overall procedure went smoothly and was straight-forward. It was a wise decision to just buy the F1 tranny and convert in my client's situation as the F1 tranny will have always been shifted more cleanly and effectively than the manual tranny! The driveline was shot at 31K miles. Last year I did the rear axles on this car. They had thrown all their grease out on the inner joints and were binding like crazy. The car still had tons of gear wind and rolling noise though. Also the synchros for 2nd and 3 were shot as it grinded on shift. So this time I completely disassembled the tranny to inspect. It turns out this client had some sort of modified ring gear which was supposed to change the gearing. Well, after 31K this choice was unwise as the ring and pinion were slowly grinding away! So the tranny was filled with very granular metal particles. Obviously this required a very careful flushing of the tranny cooler and lines upon installation of the replacement trans. Also, the torque tube was worn and "clicked" a bit upon spinning. I R&R'ed this too. So, as Taz mentions, the overall F1 to manual transformation on a 612 would require pedals, complete shift linkage parts (mechanical and interior), some underbelly insulation modifications, ECUs, reverse sensor, throw out bearing, some lines, etc. I don't have an overall quote in mind. I do have two ECUs for the manual though. Maybe four. I'd be willing to tackle the job on time and materials for someone that really wanted to take it on! You'd probably have to supply Ferrari with a manual trans VIN to get the parts and you never know if they'd get halfway through and say "hell no, I see what you are up to!". But likely not...
I'm also looking into this. I have compiled a spreadsheet of all the parts differences - and there are many; such as pedal differences and other interior parts, etc. The key is determining which ones are really necessary and if those parts are actually available.
Someone's got to take the first risk and plunge. If we submit an order through (say Eurospares) and ask them to confirm availability of each item before commitment, I think we could get a first conversion done. I think the parts would all be available. I cannot fathom that any one of them is discontinued.
I am looking into adjusting a pair of f1 612 ecu to manual operation, the actual units are exactly the same its just the software hence different part numbers. Most should just be deletion of additional sensor inputs. Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
I have no doubts that a competent mechanic, such as yourself, can do the job for sure. Its the parts that concern me - both in availability and price. Many of those parts are incredibly expensive - and to think that F1 was a more expensive order item! The 612 MT does have some unique characteristics, such as the raised platform under the gated shift lever, that will need to match existing interior.
Its a steep learning curve thats for sure, but slotting a v12 into a space meant for a 355 v8 is no mean feat either!
OK, so I have to admit... he's got me thinking... I've had a beer or two tonight here, but someone remind me why the F1 ECUs would fail in the MT cars (aside from throwing codes on the dash like crazy)? I can fully understand that the MT ECU's would fail in the F1s, but why the other way around? Aside from lighting up a reverse switch (which could be done "manually") what is missing from a F1's mapping to ensure operation of a MT car?
Jason- The F1 DMEs are designed to work with the F1 TCU and relies on inputs from the TCU before the engine will start. There are all kinds of signals passed back and forth between the two, with a start in gear signal going back there to tell the TCU to open the clutch before start. Same with other interconnected CAN switches like the brake pedal switch, which only operates the brake lights on a three pedal F1 Ferrari. I can think of several other things an F1 DME is looking for before it will start, like open panels, that I am not sure affect starting on a three pedal Ferrari.
As I said its software only and signal inputs, these can all be worked around when going from F1 to manual, and of course going the other way could not be done as the ecu would not be providing the outputs needed for F1 operation.
Of course if anyone wants to swap a pair of manual ecu's for my f1 pair it would make my life a lot easier! The 612 uses the same ecu as the 430. Bosch part numbers for all versions are the same. Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
I have got a 550 shifter unit with rod to gearbox if anyone need it. Might be similar to the 575 and 612 units. PM me..
The ECU pinouts are available on the workshop manual for both MT and F1. As such, the required signaling mods could likely be identified and worked out. The other concern I have is throttle control. I guess the beauty of finding a way to use the F1 ECUs is that now you could modify the 612 F1s beyond 2006! An OTO MT!!!
Jason I did reply to your PM, maybe we can swap some info maybe best by email given the time differences? I will PM you my email address.
