612 OTO CCM brake rotors replacement

Entirely possible Ferrari got the specs wrong in the OTO fact sheet. Can you measure your discs and see what the thickness is? If close to the Carbo thicknesses, you should be ok. The other company to check with would be Surface Transforms, but I am not sure if they sell to the general public.

 

If I remember well, front is 380x36 and rear 360x32.
What CarboBrake says is a little bit weird because…they provided me new rotors 2 years ago, after I have sent them my Brembos (in Germany). After that, they added the 612 to their catalog.
So they should exactly know what the right sizes are, and I am pretty sure fronts are 36 and rears 32. If you are discussing with them (Francisco?), they can check the order they had in Feb. 2021 from France.
I will check on Sunday the size of my CarboBrake rotors when I will come back home.
BTW, very good rotors, even if CarboBrake (the company) is not organised well at all.

 

2 years ago, ST told me they will be ok with a 2 sets order. But at this time, nobody owning a 612 had a project of CCM replacement.
There is a few 612 equipped with CCMs: only those built after Sept. 2007. Then the market is not huge…
And yes, it’s Frederico and not Francisco…
I will measure them tomorrow.

For removing the message, you have to do a +1 on the number of rotors sets mounted on the car, via SD3/SDX. I don’t know exactly the procedure, because my mechanics has done it for me.

 

Mike- Not correct. The HGTC option was available way before September 2007, along with the sister HGTS package without the CCMs. These packages were available at least by SN 147xxx in early 2006 (March 2006 for the example I have).

 

@tazandjan : thank you, I forgot the HGTCs (2006-2007)!
HGTCs + Sept2007+ models: it should represent more or less 1000 to 1200 items, which is quite few.
This is why, according to me, suppliers are not interested by building rotors for the 612.
Rear rotors are common with the 599, but fronts are specifics.
2 years ago, when I was discussing with SurfaceTransforms, MoveIt and Carbobrake, Carbobrake was the only interested by my project.

 

I have checked on my OTO (and on my ex-Brembos, I still have them):
Front: 380mm x 36mm
Rear: 360mm x 32mm (same as 599)

I have checked my purchase order: it was at the end of Febr 2021, via their french reseller. We made a double order, one for a 599 and one for a 612, same procedure (Brembos sent to Germany to copy front and rear rotor center pieces).

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The other problem is the rear drum parking brake, which manufacturers do not want to do. All the V8s have a separate caliper for the parking brake, but not our V12s.

One thing you might want to check is to see if you can use your current hats and the friction surfaces from the CS/F430, which are also 380 mm. Usually, the fronts wear at about twice the rate of the rears, so you might scrape a few more years out of the rears. Unfortunately, CS/F430 rears are 350 mm vs your 360 mm.

 

@diegolrz : sorry for the delay of my answer.
The French reseller only works for this country. He cannot help you.
I don't have CarboBrake order number as I was behind the french reseller, but CarboBrake has my references and can find my order: they sent me back my Brembos after they scanned them in Febr. 2021. The same action had been done at the same time for the 599 (another french customer). Orders have been done on march 2021, and delivery has been done in November 2021 (and sent back to them for adjustments and missed holes). We finally received our final rotors in December 2021.
And I double confirm the sizes (Front: 380mmx36mm , Rear: 360mmx32mm for 612). If Carbobrake cannot find the order and the right sizes, it's confirming what I am thinking about them: their products are awesome but their process are awfull.
Here is the photo of my rotors. As it was the first delivery, you can see that holes for adjusting the handbrake were missing on the rear rotors, the reason why we had sent back the rotors to them. At this time, the rear rotors also had a bad 2mm offset. Everything had been fixed after the second delivery, same rotors but with adjustments.

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Whats the going rate these days for new CCM rotors, be they from Surface Transforms or Carbo Brake?

 

Around 2,5 - 2.7 K€ with VAT per rotor.
An example here (Carbo Brake), in France:
https://www.vagdiscount.com/freinage-disque-de-frein-ferrari-c-32_97_688.html
As far as I know, Surface Transforms doesn’t have the 612 in their catalog: they have the right size for the discs but not the footprint for the center parts.

 

I see that they're about £2800+VAT for new OEM Brembo discs from Eurospares. I was kinda thinking that there would be a bigger cost delta for an "aftermarket solution".

 

Carbo Brake (or Surface Transforms) provides CCM with a different technology, with ability to support higher temperatures than 599 or 612 Gen 1 Brembo CCM.
Don’t forget that 599 and 612 have been designed for cooling steel brakes and not CCMs. It’s also one of the reasons why Ferrari mounted an extra cooling system on the 599 GTO.
I have no affiliation with Carbo Brake, Surface Transforms, or anybody else.

 

Ohh this has popped up at the right time.

I’m Kinda in the same boat. My front discs are due soon. Save spending 750+ on standard single piece discs I was looking at getting a floating disc set up.id rather drop 1k+ on that tbh.

other part that helps is that I’ve got a set of ccm callipers that just need a rebuild. So will look to get a steel brake set up with the larger ccm callipers.

question is has anyone looked into it and can the standard hub carry the larger calliper?

My sort of plan is to get AP Discs and a custom bell. and the pads would come from CL

 

I had the same question: I didn't have the need of CC rotor performances, steel brakes were good enough.
But, in France, we know that if we have a big accident with human damage, if our car is not fully compliant with the homologation she had (particularly for security parts), the insurance will use this fact to not cover you, even if the accident is not related to a brake failure. Moreover, with human damage, it could be easily a seven digit amount...
Then I decided not to play with that: ok CCM are not mandatory on these GTs even on track if you are reasonable (612 drivers are reasonable ), but I wanted to drive comfortable in my head, not telling me that I drive without any insurance coverage.
Maybe it's different in the U.S?

 

I'm already on Steel Brakes so don't have the issue I've heard of people needing to pair up the new CCM Discs when they are installed i would imagine you'd need the code deleting to get rid of the light.

@mike051 : Cant Speak for the US but in the UK i suppose you'd have to tell your insurance as its Technically a Mod. Cant see there being an issue though.

looking on the Brembo Website they offer a floating disc that's the right size for for the front and back. (interesting their both for AMG's) you would just need a custom bell to get the height right.

 

Nice wheels

 

@Connor-d21 : I didn't have to tell my insurance about anything as it is the same technology and the same sizes. Quite the same thing as having Michelins instead of Pirellis in the same size.

The custom bell is the major issue on this topic: 612 and 599 have standard sizes (398x36 and 380x36 for Fronts and 360x32 for Rears), but the tricky part is to find a supplier having the footprint of the bells.
Surface Transforms asked me to buy 2 sets of rotors (8 rotors) to accept scanning my Brembo's bells and reproducing them, Carbobrake didn't set this constraint.

The major issue with 599 and 612 CCMs is in fact 2 issues:
1) 599 and 612 have been designed for cooling steel brakes and not CCMs. And we know that temperatures could be higher with CCMs. Then, with CCMs and when used on track, we can have high temperatures relatively quickly (3-5 laps or 15 min in the mountains), also due to the weight of the cars
2) Brembo Gen1 CCMs have an issue: on high temperatures, they loose carbon fibers. This symptom could make the rotor to be under the min weight quicker than Ferrari's Marketing team announced in 2008 (car's lifetime)
And according to me, Ferrari discovered relatively quickly this double issue because in 2010, for the 599 GTO, they have added an additional cooling system just around the rotors. Later, this additional cooling system has not been mounted on the TDF because the TDF has a major difference: its basis (the F12) has been designed with CCMs and already has a dynamic cooling system that the 599 didn't have due to her design based on steel brakes.

Then, if your CCMs have to be changed, and considering that improving cooling capability of the car is not realistic, you have 2 options:
1) buy brembo Gen 1 CCMs at the Ferrari dealer, and make sure that if you use your brakes hard, you cool them regularly (1 to 2 cool laps every 3-5 laps depending on the track): if you regularly cool your brakes, you should not have any CCM issue
2) buy an alternative, much more modern enabling higher temperatures without loosing carbon. But in this case, be sure that the supplier has bell's footprint.