'64 250 GTO damaged at Goodwood Revival 2016

If you're going to race these things, stuff like this can happen. Goes with the territory. What's different, IMO, is the attitudes on the different sides of the pond.

In EUR, they drive them hard. They drive them so hard they trade paint and bend metal from time to time. They're cars. They can be repaired. They will be repaired. Fix it and have more fun.

In the US, I think we drive them less hard, because we are so deathly afraid of crinkling up a corner. We think, "It's no longer 'original.' It's now de-valued. We shouldn't be damaging history." Accidents do still happen, of course.

Does EUR even have the equivalent of the 13/13 rule, which is another disincentive to pushing hard(er)?

CW

 

lot of replicas and real cars
respect? hell with that ;-)

 

These owners have to respect their cars more. The day of REAL competition for them is long over. Now it is just old men with big ego's driving way over their heads and damaging pieces of history, sometimes severely. What does it prove???? Grow up already.

 

If you have the resources to own and race a couple of 250GTOs you also have the resources to make sure you can make up plenty of spare parts and body panels and leave the original pieces safely at home.

 

This kind of competitive racing should be left to replica's. Unfortunately this is what Ferrari thinks of replicas......
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And the chassis number is?

Marcel Massini

 

Not sure as I found it on the internet, but I do not think it had a Ferrari chassis number. That's why they scrapped it. If it had a donor 250 GT chassis it would have been ok??

 

On one side I can see how some may think these are spoiled rich guys with no respect for money and the cars flexing there beer guts and big egos, on the other its awesome to see these cars full out in person and experience them not put static in a museum doing boring parade laps around the track, I say put the foot to the floor.

 

The racing at Goodwood Revival (and Members' Meeting) is exactly what these cars should be doing.

 

This the perfect way to use a car it was made for racing. Does anyone know what spec acar no. 89 is running pretty competitive

 

I agree they should be raced, just not like it is 1964 again....A lot of these cars are very rare one offs(not the GTO or Jaguar's). If you destroy the originality in a bad crash all you really have left after rebuild is a replica. So let's just all forget about serial numbers and patina and go pedal to the metal.

 

AMEN!!!

 

Ultimately the owners make the decision on how the cars they own are used. I support that notion 100%. Anybody who has seen how the cars are raced at Goodwood and other European venues, compared with how they are often raced in the U.S. would notice a big difference. Frankly, I think the UK/Euro drivers show more respect for the cars' heritage and purpose and the U.S. drivers perhaps are more concerned with their value.....neither is a better or worse perspective, just different. (I'm using "drivers" as synonymous with "owners.")

 

Those drivers have no brain. They should try Formula 1.

 

I don't think many of the owners actually race the cars, they normally have a pet racing driver to do that. Bit like owning a race horse, its a good excuse for a day out with their set thats all, the cars get them the entry.

Besides most of these cars are near on replicas anyway after years of fender benders in period and beyond. I hear it told less than a million £ buys a ground up build anyway on a 250 GTO so small change in comparison to their value.

 

I think you guys are forgetting something - these cars don't belong to you. If an owner wants to put a pink flamingo on top of a GTO, he has that right. So if an owner wants to hire a pro to drive the **** out of his car, it's his car.

 

They definitely drive these cars hard don't they?

Good to see it's an easy fix on this car.

 

Actually many of the drivers are also the owners, although there are plenty of hire drivers as well.

Compared with some years the racing was pretty tame, especially considering conditions on Saturday. I dare say many historic racing venues in the U.S. would not have even opened the track under similar conditions, which I consider sad. Your last comment is a bit silly. Surely you didn't mean it.

Amen. I don't resent these rich owner/drivers for what they have, nor would I presume to tell them what they should do with what they own. I wish I were one of them!. I'm grateful that they allow the rest of us to see them being used as intended instead of in a museum or on a show field.

 

I think this thread is starting to align with the 250 SWB thread. TK drove the PANTS off the car. It was something to behold, of course, but the question really is, "What's to gain?" Then, there's the Kenny Brack video I posted of him driving a Ford GT40. Seriously fast driving in the wet. For what? Last, there's the end-over-end crash of the open wheeled race I posted. Is it really worth pushing this hard? The owner/driver had a broken collar bone, I believe, but it could have been much, much worse.

I'm all for seeing these cars at their limits, but it only takes one mistake.

The guys running our track events in the past used to say that there's NOTHING you can do to the cars to make them worth more at the end of the day, but there's a lot you can do to make them worth less. I'm all for running hard and putting on a good show, but within limits, right? And, some of these cars are now running at lap times LOWER than they did in-period. I'm fine with that, but it's not like the drivers are going to get a call for a test with an F1 team no matter how many Historic races they might win, either.

CW

 

Does there have to be something to "gain"? Few things we do in life for pleasure or passion provide any kind of payoff other than the pleasure they give for their own sake. Anyone who's been to Revival can easily see the thrill and enjoyment the experience gives owners, drivers and spectators alike. If Nick Mason offered me a drive in his GTO would I say, "Gee, thanks Nick, but I really don't see what's to be gained by it"? These are people enjoying themselves in objects that they love, in a venue they respect, with like minded people whom they like and admire. For me, that would be gain enough.

As Nick said (about 10 years ago) when asked by a general media reporter about risking damaging his (then) £12 million Ferrari, "Well, it doesn't cost £12 million to fix it."

 

I don't read Thoroughbred and Classic but I've subscribed to Classic and Sports Car for about 30 years. Honestly, they rarely......almost never......publish pictures of crashes in historic races.

 

I think you have to consider it as a risk v. reward proposition. Lots of risk driving VERY fast amongst other fast cars. It's rewarding in itself (and in the personal experience), but there's no prize money, promotion or ride for you after a win. So, it's a sort of lop-sided equation (you cannot quantify how I feel about the experience).

That said, I'm all for fast, competent driving. I have less of an issue with a TK or a KB taking a car to the limit than I do with the guy who thinks he can drive as well as TK or KB and makes a move out of desperation. Hero who beat a Pro driver in a Historic race? Or, zero who balls up a couple of cars and is never to be invited back? Although, having a TK or a KB in the car is, as I say in the other thread, sort of like bringing a gun to a knife fight. More like a bazooka. It kind of makes it less fun for everyone else.

And, unless a car burns to the ground (and possibly, even if that were to happen), it can indeed be repaired. A quarter panel is a quarter panel. But, there's sometimes too much concern for and emphasis on the fact that THIS quarter panel finished Le Mans in 19xx, but THAT one didn't, when so-and-so was driving it. And, this is where so-and-so's glamorous squeeze sat on the fender and dented it. And, that's where the thingamajig came undone and broke the whatsit. It's a car. To be used. Not a thing to hang on the wall, IMO.

CW