'67 S - One owner, First paint! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

'67 S - One owner, First paint!

Discussion in 'Ad Archives' started by Ferrari 308 Vetro, Aug 29, 2014.

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  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    I don't think you are getting the point.

    It is not about the quality of the paint or restoration, but the fact that this car is 100% as it left the factory! That is why not having been painted is so special and very rare and makes an original car different.

    The term "first paint" is not how I would be describing the car though, I would be saying it is original and has never been repainted.

    There are thousands of restored or repainted old Porsches out there but there are not many that have their original paint and never been damaged requiring panel and paint work.
    Pete
     
  2. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
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    I have friends and clients that have 911s and a few bathtubs. They've never done a thing for me. They don't seem "exotic" at all. No way I could justify that kind of money for something so ordinary, regardless how many times it wasn't restored. ;)
     
  3. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
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  4. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe Mansion
    Makes a Daytona at 800k looks like a bargain.
     
  5. embraer

    embraer Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2012
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    kicking myself for selling my original, Viper Green '73S in 2007 for 35K. That being said....the market is completely inflated on these cars. 440K is insane money for these cars. Good on you if you get it!
     
  6. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Stradman
    That is still not explaining why it is superior or "better"...
     
  7. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Pete
    Hmmm ... interesting.

    Are you an old car person? I guessing that you are not.

    Many old car people dream of owning a car exactly as it left the factory and unrestored but in good condition. That is the only time an old car can be 100% original and many of us like that. That is the perfect old car to purchase, assuming of course it does not then need a restoration.

    That is why this car is better than one that has been repainted. If you cannot see that then old cars are not for you. Fair enough
    Pete
     
  8. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    Thank's Pete.
    Find a restored One and this one, i think it is 30/1
    There are no original Cars existing, specialy First owner.
    Not more to say about this...
     
  9. vectorfiles

    vectorfiles Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2004
    663
    I have not seen a decent paint job on any modern car in 20 years since they started using water based paint.
    Show me one modern car that really has a smooth surface paint job and not the typical orange peel of water based paints.
     
  10. davebuchner

    davebuchner Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2005
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    Dave Buchner
  11. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
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    GS Johnson
    Had to have been way before 2007. I got 34K for my 72 T in 2007. An S would have brought 60k to 80K in 2007, unless you had a rust bucket in need of restoration.
     
  12. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    It's impossible to prove why a subjective trait is "better".

    Anyone can restore a car. No one has a time machine.
     
  13. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    One of the big attractions of an original paint car is it does not take an expert to know the condition of the car. Any body can look at an original paint car and can see if there is rust or accident damage.
    On a restored car you have no idea what was done to make it look like that, was it in a fire? massive wreck? was the car straightened? how many body panels are original? if not how good was the quality of the replacements?
    On a original paint car there are none of these questions. It is the real deal, no stories.
    So good condition original will trump a restored car.
     
  14. stevenwk

    stevenwk F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2007
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    900K for a 904 I understand. But, 2 911's equaling the price of a 904??

    Nice car, don't get me wrong, but there's nothing exotic about the car IMHO.

    I would write a check for maybe $40K, but nowhere near the kind of money asking.

    Hope the seller gets what he's asking.
     
  15. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Show me an old car having one too......Furthermore I will also point out many more imperfections of different sorts with old cars paints. I have seen plenty of great modern car paint jobs. On the other hand I have yet to see an old totally original fantastic paint job. If people want to label that as charming, I have no problem with that but lets not confuse quality with charm.
    In general you simply cannot compare the old techniques and the paints with the newer modern ones. I fear you might be wearing rose tinted glasses in your assessment.
     
  16. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

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    What you are talking about is knowing the history of a car, any car. You see I don't think it is as simple as what you state. I have seen many so called "original" paint reveal things because in the end they were simply not original. And of course this is where accompanying history is so valuable. If a complete thorough history car becomes available and you find in the history that the car had a front respray because of the myriad of chips it acquired during it's lifetime then I don't think that car suddenly becomes any less valuable or inferior to one that sports hundreds of front chips yet is "original". In fact I would prefer the documented resprayed one and I certainly wouldn't pay extra to have the spotted car, only to respray it later myself because it looks crappy. And of course if any car does not have a full history accompanying it then you have to do all due diligence to ensure it is what it is and not accept what anyone says about "originality" In that scenario you would then do a thorough inspection anyway and if the car has had any "story" then I promise you it will be revealed.
    So what I am saying in the end is that all this "original" and "first paint" business is hugely overly inflated and unnecessarily over emphasised and one should never let that influence people erroneously. Of course if we are talking about an extremely low mileage totally original car then that is a completely different story. The aforementioned car in this thread is not such a car......
     
  17. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Stradman, Nothing is simple. Restorations make things more complicated.
    History is always good to have on any car you buy, more so on a restored car.
    If you can see a car is not original paint, then it is not original paint car and a different subject matter.

    A restored car needs substantial more documentation to support it's legitimacy. A survivor car, with a little "Patina" that looks honest is easier to support and would obviously be a better base for a restoration.
    You live where rust is a big issue, you must know the games played with cars and rust. Many restored cars come back to haunt the new owners. Now view a car that has no work done on it, there it is an honest no rust no accident car and nothing to hide or is hidden, as the factory built it. There is an appeal to a Porsche assembled car let's say over a California restoration shop or really any non factory shop.
    Now is this car over priced? Easily could be, maybe greatly, I do not know. The market is changing so fast and that was not your question any way.
     
  18. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

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    Absolutely.
    Its just that it seemed to me that the original poster here wanted to post "First paint" sensationally in the title and original post of this thread with no other qualification, as if that was the end all, be all holy grail or implies that it can justify a huge premium on the price tag.
    That bothers me particularly because this on it own never tells the whole story of any car, little lone one that's nearly 50 year old. And therefore I wanted, and needed to make the point and say that although it is one aspect/quality of any car there are many other points to consider and that one should not be blind to those and assess those equally. However the op just kept coming up with the same old sound bites over and again.......
     
  19. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Stradman, I agree, Point taking.
     
  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Amazing ...


    How a car that has never been painted can be hiding secrets is beyond me, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the paint ... I guess somebody just wants to argue :)
    Pete
    ps: old Bugattis were originally painted by hand. If I could find and afford an original unrepainted Bugatti I would be over the moon if still in good condition and not neglected. How else could I purchase a Bugatti as THEY made it.
     
  21. embraer

    embraer Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2012
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    #46 embraer, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
    you're right...it was 2005. values took a big jump right after 2005. at the time, 34K was good money for that car....it was a clean driver. the BEST cars weren't pushing 50-60K. I bought my clean '70T for 12K that same year, the year after I graduated from college.

    regardless, air-cooled porsches are a bubble. ive owned over 10 of them, and unless it's a factory race car, I could never justify almost a half million for one.


    btw: I took the 34K, backpacked around Europe, lived priceless experiences, then started a new career when I got back to the States.
     
  22. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

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    Hey, what ever floats your boat as they say Pete!
     
  23. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
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    Early Long Hood 911s are no more in a bubble than the vintage F-Cars. Both have risen proportionately. Owning 10 of them, you should know that the only half million dollar production long hood 911 is the 73 RS.
     
  24. embraer

    embraer Formula Junior

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    That's exactly it. As a long time Porsche guy, I appreciate the cars for what they are. Does market value say a 73 RS should cost half mil? Sure. If I had a half mil burning a hole in my pocket, would I buy one? Nope. I'd buy a much more rare 246gt or any of the 60's 2+2 ferraris before another long hood Porsche for 400k. I've got 2 long hoods and an xke sitting in my garage now.

    I agree all of these prices are going crazy. Most are dictated by people arbitrarily saying their car is worth $xxxxxx. Porsche made a hell of a lot of long hoods, even S models. For me personally, I think the price is too high, driven by media attention this last year, 50th anniversary of 911, and people like Magnus Walker selling the "image".
     
  25. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
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    Interesting, here are two worlds colliding. Anyway, for me, the unrestored is the true, it is 100%. You can restore cars again and again and again ...

    And don't forget please, this is a one owner car also.
     

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