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'70's Campagnolo rims - what color code silver?

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by 71Satisfaction, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    Interesting to compare photos. B's metal is visibly much cleaner and more color-consistent than the bare metal of mine. According to the powdercoating shop, each blemish you can see on my rims is oil contamination of the metal, and it keeps weeping out under heat (although, by the time I took these photos, some of the crud is from handling them after the powdercoating attempts).

    I had another shop pick them up today for evaluation. It's a shop dedicated to car rims, they restore and apply a variety of finishes. I've asked them to give me an assessment of what they can do in Sikken Autocryl CF9070.

    Cheers,
    - Art

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  2. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Those aren't nearly as bad castings as my Espada rims were but ... there are plenty of surface imperfections.
    I spent some time asking people and that earlier linked video is a good one Art.
    I eventually went with the advice of a well known Lamborghini (he's done a lot of these older rims) restorer utilizing the zinc chromate primer once the rims had been properly "pickeled".
    Lot's of primer and very careful sanding will fill most of those smaller imperfections. Then a thick coating with a single stage enamel will look real nice. It also helps to seal the rim against any porosity.
    I didn't go for a perfection smooth look. The reproductions in aluminum are like that but the originals were always more rustico. ;) More so than Bora rims. The pre 75 Boras had polished lips on the outside. I don't think those were clear coated?

    But I had whole portions of the delicate fin work that had been damaged in the molding process so those had to be built back up with Bondo. They're still a bit funky looking. That's what was done by Campagnolo originally. I watched the blasting process in stages so I know exactly what came off of my wheels and each wheel took about an hour to get clean because of all the intricate air flow dead ends created by that amazing design. Painting, which I did, was a challenge as well for the same reason. I used a version of Bondo that's called Icing.

    You'll get there Art.
     
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  3. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    Yes, I'll get there eventually. Not too worried. With powdercoating off the table, the process is a little easier. I will not have any fillers applied, I don't want a clear coat applied, I want the final surface as raw as possible. The shop will call me back with their assessment and I'll hear what they have to say. The link to recommendations from Steve Kouracos' shop posted early on in this thread has a lot of unequivocal advice on conventional paint refinishing of Campagnolos. I'm familiar with Alodine and its uses on aluminum, and by extension the dangers of chemical contamination of soft metals.

    Cheers,
    - Art
     
  4. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Photo with an update. I had the rims finished in enamel to match Sikkens CF9070, with no clear coat. The results came out as I had wanted - a nice clean color finish with some casting imperfections showing thru.

    The rim restoration shop felt the oil contamination wouldn't be an issue with enamel. They offered to skim and surface-treat them smooth with hi-build primers, but I declined that to get more casting 'grain' to show through. Just my personal preference. The shop shot me a sample of the CF9070 and I approved the color. They guarantee their prep for 24 months, which I felt was reasonable. The shop included mounting the tires to control scuffing or scratching. Took them a week. Cost was $229/rim.

    Cheers,
    - Art
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  5. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Is that casting irregularities or the result of sub-surface corrosion? It's an interesting effect.

    That would take an incredible amount of hand finishing to eliminate. My Espada wheels weren't quite that rough. Though I had a couple of much smaller ribs that were bent & broken from new and were reformed in shape (sort of) with Bondo. There were purely decorative. Frankly I don't think the Campagnolo wheels of that era were of high quality. I spent an inordinate amount of time hand finishing mine and not towards the goal of perfection but a lot smoother than this. At the time I finally finished I then thought to myself that I could have bought a complete new set for just under $1,500! If I could go back in time that's what I would have done instead. But mine are the originals.
     
  6. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    Thank you Art for these detailed pics and reporting.
    The surface irregularities may be from casting (certainly) but also from sub-surface corrosion and "leaking" because of the mag sensitivity to oxygen and water if the wheel is not perfectly leak tight protected by the chromate treatment and painting.
    The spills of LHM on the mag seem not to have helped...

    The final result looks very nice.
    Could you please summarise what was the protective treatment or chemical preparation before paint (was alodine or other chromate used underneath at some stage)?
     
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  7. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Good morning, Froggie -
    I finally got around to follow up here. I'm sorry do not have a specific answer for you:

    When I talked with the shop (Elite Wheels of Albany. New York http://www.eliteofalbany.com/home.html ) about preparation of my rims, they described they use a primer formulated to fill the pores of the magnesium of such size that would promote paint adhesion, but not fill the pores that are of a size beneficial to the performance of the metal. I asked if the primer was a particular formula or process like Alodine or Chromate-based. The man was friendly, but still responded vaguely that the primer was a liquid, applied by hand, made from their own formulation, chosen for the Campagnolo's magnesium alloy. He repeated each type of alloy gets a selected formula and is treated by hand, and they test the results before releasing the rim to have tires mounted, balanced and returned to the customer. That's about as far as he could explain it to me.

    I will drop by the shop with the Bora to share with the technicians what the final results look like, so they can take pride in their work. Maybe I can manage to get a more technical response about the process. I don't know how durable the enamel paint will be on the tips of the hubcap 'tabs', after I put them on and take them off several times - I'll be sure to use protective pads.

    Cheers,
    - Art
     
  8. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    In my very best Maxwell Smart (the original TV show) voice

    "Ah the old secret mumbo jumbo explanation chief!" LOL. Proprietary process not to be given away.

    Was it much more money to get a much smoother look?
     
  9. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    I didn't want a smooth finish, so I didn't even ask. It wouldn't be much though - maybe $125 per rim. These (4) were $916 including mounting tires, valves and balancing.
    - Art
     
  10. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Can't say I necessarily agree after my experience though the Espada rims are a much harder design to do smooth finishing on.
     

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