747-400 -v- -8 wingtip design - Applicable to cars? | FerrariChat

747-400 -v- -8 wingtip design - Applicable to cars?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Fast_ian, Aug 28, 2012.

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  1. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    #1 Fast_ian, Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey guys,

    This is rapidly becoming my "go to" section - So much cool stuff, and no "noise". :)

    It seems that a few years back the designers realized they could improve lift by limiting what I'll call "spill-out" by putting winglets at the tips - Initially only on the upper edge, but subsequently also on the underside. My (limited) understanding of aerodynamics & Mr Bernoulli etc can make sense of that thinking. Very cool.

    I recall there's a company (Boeing subsidiary?) that will retrofit the "winglets" and hence improve many older designs. Again, very cool.

    Then, along comes the -8 and all that thinking goes out the window! [I stole one of Lou's -8 pictures & found a 400 one for comparison.]

    Given that much race car technology comes from aerospace, I'm wondering if they've all currently got their heads up their arses with their front wing designs!...... I'll find some pix to illustrate next, but F1 front wings seem to be following the -400 principle - "Trap" the air "inside" the wing....... But, assuming the -8 is more efficient maybe they should look at the same approach?
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  2. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    #2 Fast_ian, Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok, here's a pic of a "modern" F1 front wing - Seems they're heavily adopting the "winglet" principle and stopping any "spill" (There's gotta be a better term, but I don't know it?) They've gone as far as doing 3 little "winglets" above the main plane!

    Now, we know one of the biggest problems with F1 aero is the "sticky out" wheels turning the "wrong" way from an aero perspective. They want;

    - To generate maximum downforce
    - To "steer" the air away from the front tires.

    Could a -8 style approach work I wonder?

    Cheers,
    Ian
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  3. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 22, 2004
    32,215
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Furman
    Good question. What is going on aerodynamically around the wing tips? Vortices of course. But at what airspeed and what are the nuances of the aerodynamics?

    Regarding F1 cars, visually compare say a 1995 car with a 2004. The newer car has more flow, detailing, and nuances to the aero appendages.

    Absolutely love the lines of the -8.

    -F
     
  4. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2006
    1,677
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Ferrari-tech
    A lot of the design of the F1 front wing has to do with controlling the massive air disturbance caused by the air spill from the front wheel that goes in all directions and effects everything in every direction, hence the barge boards that are designed to catch that air and control it, and send it in the right direction, ie into the side pods for cooling, or around them for down force, or below them to create a "barrier" flow to stop the low pressure under the car from spilling out.

    My understanding ( again very limited) of the 400 style wing tip was to "fool" the air into thinking the wing was much longer and narrower than it really was, and therefore reducing drag and all the penalty's that go with it. Of course someone much brighter than me is going to come on here and tell me why I'm totally ignorant :).

    But we do agree on one thing, this is the best section on F-chat.
     

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