747 VFR | FerrariChat

747 VFR

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by LouB747, Apr 11, 2013.

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  1. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2009
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    Lou Boyer
    I'm flying from Chicago to Pinal Air Park (near Tucson) in the morning. Pinal is a VFR only airport with no approaches, lighting, or even a VASI. Also no control tower. I haven't cancelled IFR and proceeded VFR in a long time.

    We don't fly visual patterns very often. I can't remember the last time I've landed without a GS or VASI. The runway is also a bit short compared to our usual destinations. I believe it's 6800 ft.

    Lets see, enter on the 45, downwind at 1500'AGL, abeam gear down...LOL.
     
  2. nizam

    nizam Formula 3
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    I would love to hear the radio callouts! :D

    "Lou 747 Heavy, right base for 30."
     
  3. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Are you dropping one off at the boneyard?
     
  4. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Yeah, late model 400. I believe it's due for a D check. Rather than spend the money, it's going to be parked for awhile. Not much of a lease market for 400's these days. I hear there are two 747-8s parked there. One is ours "NCA". Our 3rd -8. It will be picked up June or July. Not sure why its in the desert as opposed to Boeing.
     
  5. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 16, 2012
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    A couple yrs ago my neighbor delivered one of NWA's last Whales down there. They ended up doing a few touch and go's to burn off fuel, since it wouldn't be needing it anymore. Have fun.
     
  6. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    Lou, your line at the end of your post brought it all back and surfaced a series of comments on Av Chat by Rob about a Big Tin Bird pilot trying to land a C-172 after horsing around a big 747 and landing 50 feet in the air. I thought that it was still all about the numbers when landing with any airplane , large or small. Enter traffic on the downwind at a 45, get it slowed down on the downwind, turn on base when the threshold is 45 to the aft, the and keep it just above stall on the base and final and let it plop on the numbers. In 1945 when I was revisiting the little grass strip from which I soloed I remember seeing a P-51 pilot trying to land a Cub and he used P-51 style landing techniques instead of Cub techniques. He was giving his mother her first ride in an airplane and ended up with the Cub bouncing all over the county and ending up on the nose and one wing tip. he blamed the airplane for " Not paying off." I'll bet that you will do your landing just fine. Love your posts, keep them coming.
     
  7. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Always good to get back to basics once in a while.
     
  8. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    With some control towers all over the country being closed by sequestration, this scenario might become all too common, maybe not for 747s, but for other aircraft whose pilots are not used to landing at uncontrolled airports.....
     
  9. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    I read that over 90 percent of all US airports are uncontrolled...


    I know aircraft don't last forever... but still get a twinge when I hear about one that makes it's last landing... in AZ, often.
     
  10. bijanmaleki

    bijanmaleki Rookie

    May 18, 2005
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    Still down here in az?
     
  11. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    Cool, but no glidepath with a -400? With that thing you could build a glideslope to a cow pasture.

    Dave
     
  12. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Left a few hours later on a commercial flight to LAX....
     
  13. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Yeah, you can, if the airport is in the FMS database. It wasn't. If it had been, you just select the runway and VFR arrival and it builds a glideslope.

    Ended up doing it the old fashioned way, doing what feels right.....
     
  14. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Yes it is. It was fun flying! Keeping it on the right glidepath on final was a little challenging. I wish I could see how close I was to a proper 3 degree path. Maybe best I don't!
     
  15. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Yeah, the ideas the same. But in reality, it's a lot different. The big difference is the length of the airplane and, in this case, making sure you're not short. Without a proper GS or VASI to follow, it's easy to land a little short, especially when you don't have a long runway to work with.

    When I fly small planes on occasion, I sometimes look out the side window to see how high I am during the flare.....
     
  16. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I would guess that with an aircraft with such a high cockpit, like a 747 or a C-5, it's a bit hard at first to know when to flare. I'll bet the first time anyone tries (in a simulator, hopefully), they wait too long and wind up crunching the airplane into the ground. Is this so?
     
  17. avishar

    avishar Karting

    Jul 5, 2008
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    Lou,your threads are always informative to learn more about the nuances of flying,have been following for a long time.:)

    Took me some reading to understand what "Lets see, enter on the 45, downwind at 1500'AGL, abeam gear down" meant.

    For 6,800ft did you need to use reverse thrust even at i guess a very low weight? And the desert outside temperature being high how much would the stall speed increase and as a result your landing speed? Hope you dont mind my newbie questions.

    Bob Parks,your posts are very informative as always.Thanks and please keep those posts coming.:)
     
  18. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    Isn't there a way to build a runway into the database manually? Maybe it's not worth the trouble.

    Dave
     
  19. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Yeah, it's a bit different at first, but you quickly get used to it. We use the radar altimeter callouts....50,30,20,10 to judge the flare. At 50, a slight pull back. At 30, the rest of the pull. Like any plane, you get to know it over time. You can feel it when you're just inches off the ground. It's also very stable.....
     
  20. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    There might be, but I've never done it. And I figured I'd rather trust my eyes than something I've built into the FMS that might be incorrect.
     
  21. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Firstly, thanks. I enjoy trying to answer the questions. Yeah, VFR traffic enters the traffic pattern from a 45 degree angle to see other traffic in the pattern. That said, there was no other traffic, and we just entered a direct downwind as that was our flight direction. Most traffic patterns are flown at 1000 AGL (above ground level). But anything turboprop sized and bigger flies a little higher...1500 ft. It gives you a little more space on final as you're flying faster. Typically retractable gear aircraft drop the landing gear abeam the runway on the downwind.

    Speed is a little tricky to explain. Hot or cold, we fly the same speed. Same speed indicated (on airspeed in cockpit). But the TAS (true airspeed)..how fast you're really moving thru the air goes up in warmer temps. It also goes up at higher altitudes. So the approach would be faster in warmer temps, but not noticeably so.

    I used a little reverse thrust right after touchdown. Reverse thrust is most effective at high speed. Better to use it early and not need it later, than to use it late and wished you hadn't waited......
     
  22. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #22 LouB747, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Approaching Tucson from the east.....

    We used the TUS (Tucson VOR) to help identify the airport on the ND (Nav Display). The green circle around it is a 36 mile ring. Pinal Airpark is 36 miles from TUS. It's also on the 308 radial. You can see the dashed green line running out on the 308. Where the two meet is where the airport should be. The green E/D there is End of Descent....the landing point.
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  23. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #23 LouB747, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #24 LouB747, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2009
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    #25 LouB747, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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