'76 308GTB for '86 328GTB $$$ difference?

My 2 cents would be to just sell the 328 outright, provided you could use the cash. Get the biz up and running, see what your situation is and how much money you end up with and then, if you still really want a 308, look for a prime example of one. Otherwise, wait until your business is doing very well and then buy whichever Ferrari you want

 

It's either a fibreglass car, or not a '76 308 (steel 308's middle of '77 onward).

 

8valve

You are wrong. Steel cars came to the US first and there are steel 76's and no glass 77's at all. Europe got them into the 1977.

This particular 76 sounds like a well used car. Owner spent money to be sure, but not much of what he did helps the value. I would guess 20-22K but get the motor checked first and absolutely don't give him your 328 until you have possesion of his car.

If you sell the 328 outright, it should go fast. GTB's are in demand.

Dave

 

Hey guys, Dan here... the one who is selling the 308. Kai pretty much hit everything right on, and I will just add a few things that came to mind:

- I have a Euro fiberglass front spoiler (brand new, never painted) that I would include with the car. I never installed it because I'm still on the fence about repainting. The argument goes 50/50 as to the "patina finish" and if I were to repaint, then I would have to somehow document that it was never in an accident...

- I have 95% of the factory emissions stuff, and it all works. In Maryland, and as I come to figure out in Seattle, if the car is 20 yrs. or older it does not have to go through emissions. Speaking of which, the full Tubi includes custom made Tubi headers. The system cost $6K new.

- A/C blows cold and new lines were fitted on it.

- Tires (Bridgestone RE 730's) have approx. 1,000 miles on them, and the wheels are perfect (no curb rash).

- Optima Battery.

- The clutch is OEM Borg & Beck and the flywheel was virgin. I had a diamond mill shave off the least amount possible, so the timing marks are still visible.

- Energy Suspension bushings all around and has new Koni's.

I cant think of anything else, and if I do I will post it. As for it being a '77, I can tell you that according to the door sill plate, the build date is Dec, 1976. As a matter of fact, my serial number (20445) is supposed to be a fiberglass number. I had heard from a glass 308 aficionado that S/N 21000 and below were all glass cars, but I'm sure Ferrari didn't always number their cars sequentially.

Anyway, like Kai said, we're both looking for a fair trade for both of us, but with all due respect to "hardtop," my car is worth waaaay more than the $20K to $22K he's suggesting. Heck, NADA values it at a high retail of $32,525 and an average retail of $25,000. NADA also gives the 328 a high retail value of $36.5K and an average retail of $31,925.

Frankly, and I had this conversation with Kai earlier, we should compare "apples to apples." If we're going to use NADA, then compare both using NADA. If we use FML (which is usually overinflated), then compare both cars using the FML. The bottom line is the difference in cash between the two vehicles, plus/minus service and accessories.

Regards,

Dan Ramos
Snohomish, WA
'76 308 GTB
'01 Duc 996 SPS
'03 Duc ST4s ABS

 

NADA is way off on those prices.

If you took the average selling price of a dealer 328, it will be say 47k, 48k. For private seller, I'd say 42k or 43k.

With all due respect, you will never find a good 328 sell for 32k. Ones for 42k get snapped up right away. Now, in your case, NADA seems to be suggesting a higher sale price than Dave's opinion, which is the reverse of the "issue" here for 328s (in my opinion 328s sell more for NADA, at least as you've quoted).

Again, very respectfully, please, do not use NADA as a justification for what you are entitled to get for these cars. What owners on this site actually paid for their cars is a much better gauge.

Did we ever figure out if it was a glass car or not?

 

I definitely agree that NADA is off with the prices, just like the FML is. All I was doing was giving an "apples to apples" comparison, so if 328 NADA prices are undervalued, I dare say so are 308 prices...

So based on the info I provided for my car and the service history and accessories I mentioned earlier, I am thinking of the following for comparison's sake:

The full Tubi should make up for the "old" paint and upholstery, and I would add, say $1,500 to the price for QV wheels, tires and the spoiler.

So... how much is an original, no issues, mechanically and cosmetically perfect '76 308 GTB, with (paint/upholstery subbed for Tubi)?


Regards,

Dan Ramos
Snohomish, WA
'76 308 GTB
'01 Duc 996 SPS
'03 Duc ST4s ABS

 

Finally, Dan, I'm sure your 308 is a gorgeous car (I've owned one before the 328), but I personally would never be happy going back to a 308 after owning the 328, and I think many people would be in the same boat. One exception is if you really "gotta have" the carbs. Another exception is if you really need the difference in cash but still want to have the 308/328 f-car driving experience.

Another way to look at it, all things being equal, if you are the owner of a well sorted car, and move to another car of a model, it is very likely your car will be in a better state of sort than someone else's, especially if you are a meticulous owner. It takes effort to sort a car and get it in top shape, and not every f-car owner puts this in.

Finally, as we all know, when anyone sells a car, there are often things left over to be fixed that the previous owner got used to, didn't notice, or didn't want to fix... Things that you might notice and might want to fix.

It sounds like the 328 gives you no issues--you drive it when you want to, no problems. This is the classic experience with the 328. For me personally, and there are some with difference experiences, but compared to the 328, I was *always* working on my 308. It was taking up weeks, weekends of my time tinkering, upgrading, fixing, sorting... And this was a top 5% dealer-sold car with a stack of service records. I just had high standards and the car was old.

But if it came down to selling the 328 and being "f-carless" or downgrading to a 308, that's a tough call. I worry that if 10k, 20k made all the difference, that I might not be able to maintain the 308 if (when!) issues did crop up.

That said, if you need the cash for the business, and the 328 is keeping that locked up for you... Maybe you need to take the risk and then wait 5 years and get your 360/430 .

 

Oh, by the way...

Sorry that my first post was as this thread. I would have liked to introduce myself first, but since it came out this way, let me back up a little...

I'm originally from the East Coast (Maryland to be exact) and was a long-time poster on the FerrariList. I used to post all the time because I had Internet at my desk at work, but unfortunately, that perk went away once I moved here. By the way, "here" is now the beautiful Pacific Northwest. I don't think you can find any more beautiful scenery than here. To top it off, the backroads are the stuff that (my) dreams are made of!

Anyway, in my prior life I was a bike mechanic, and that's how I paid my way through college. I have owned, built and helped build American muscle cars like Mustangs, Chargers, and Chevelles, to name a few. I also raced motorcycles for a brief period back in the early nineties, so I have to admit bikes are my first passion. That's why Kie and I hit it off so well!

As for my "stable", in addition to the 308, I own two Ducati Motorcycles: an '01 996 SPS and an ST4sABS. Both are very different bikes that share the same heart and soul (literally... both have the same 996 motor, although the SPS is quite a bit peppier!). My wife drives a "boring" BMW 540 with a few performance upgrades, which I wont bore you with on this forum. BTW, I service all my own vehicles and I believe that no one can service them better than I can. That's not saying I'm conceited, I'm saying no one will spend as much time as I would in diagnosing and finding the best replacement parts.

Incidentally, Mike328 is right. If you own this car, or any vintage Ferrari for that matter, you will always be working on it. It's almost like a marriage. You go through the "honeymoon" phase at first, but once the dust settles, you get to know each other through the intimacy of tinkering... What a weird analogy!

Like Kie said, I know personally quite a bit of the local F-chatters and I hope to contribute as much as I can as time permits on this forum. Until then...


Dan Ramos
Snohomish, WA
'76 308 GTB
'01 Duc 996 SPS
'03 Duc ST4s ABS

 

the GTB register site shows there were glass 76 gtb's, glass 77 gtb's and steel 76 gtb's. my 77GTB has a november '76 build date and is a steel car. *20433* yet there were a few 77's made in glass after it. i have a friend here in savannah with a euro 76 308gtb and his chasis number is *22645* his car is a 76 steel. i dont know the date of manufacture on his car. but i have been puzzled for some time in how the hell they numbered these cars.

 

Dan,
It sounds like your 308 is very original and you have maintained it to a high state of originality. You have stated that the original paint proves that the car has never been in an accident. Based on that, consider that the addition of a Tubi is decidedly non-original, as are the wheels. While most of us will probably agree that the QV wheels are an excellent and worthy addition that also "fits" the look of the car (because they were put on later 308s), you must also agree that they are not original. You would lose points at a concourse for them, as well as the Tubi. (Not that I personally would care, my 308 is not original either.) Additionally, the Tubi will make the car LOUD, which many of us (as much as we might like the sound for a few minutes) do not want to listen to for hours on end. I'm not suggesting that your car isn't wonderful (post a pic!) but that you are suggesting the Tubi and QV wheels "compensate" for the paint and interior condition in a car that is being pitched as factory original. Not sure that makes sense.

Needless, as a 77 GTB owner myself, I'm at a loss to figure out why you would get rid of a perfect early 308 for a 328, with the funny looking front end and a complete lack of carbs???? For 20 HP?

Birdman

 

So we are both wrong. (see Carreaper, and http://www.r-design.net/308/)

 

That is way to low a number I would be looking for over 25k at least.

 

To answer the question, my opinion is 308 + $20k cash for the 328.

Ken

 

My opinion:

The 308 is worth about 25K.

The 328 is worth about 50K

So figure 308 + 25K for the 328.

However, if you don't drive the 328 much, why do you want a 308? Wouldn't you be better off putting the additional cash into the business?

 

$20K for (as Birdman puts it) 20HP?? I think he has a point. However, this is a forum where all opinions are welcome...

Incidentally, although the Tubi is not stock, I have read in Bluemel's Original V8 book that the Euro versions of the early 308's came with 16" QV wheels as an option. As a matter of fact, I remember seeing either a yellow or silver 308 sporting QV's in the book.

Now, since Kai mentioned he would want enough $$$ so that if he decides to sell the 308, then he could get the same as if he sold the 328 outright, I will mention what I would consider paying for the difference.

Basically, I would pay for the amount of money it would cost to make my car cosmetically perfect. Frankly, the reason why I considered selling my 308 is because I did not want to take up too much more of my time and the 328 would be already (for the most part) finished. Keep in mind, Kai's 328 still needs a minor service and as I read some of the history, the car had a small issue with a pinhole leak in the tranny case, which was epoxied at FoS. These are issues that, knowing me, I will address myself to make the car mechanically perfect.

Anyway, let's let the thread go a little further and see what other opinions come up. In the end, it will be up to Kai and myself to agree on a price...

Dan Ramos
Snohomish, WA
'76 308 GTB
'01 Duc 996 SPS
'03 Duc ST4s ABS

 

Several years of searching for either a 308 or a 328 gave me the opportunity to examine many examples of both models. Saw everything from pristine examples to driven cars. All things being equal, based on what other owners were willing to part with their vehicles for, I would estimate that Dan's 308 is probably worth $23-24K, while Kie's 328 would sell for about $40-42K since it needs a major. Swap cars and $17.5 in cash and call it a day.

On a side note, I need to agree with Mike328. NADA seems to list 328s for less than owners will take to part with a car, while the opposite is true for older 308s (at least from my experience with these cars).

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
TWS

 

Oops. That's $17.5K in cash.

Don't want Dan to get too excited.

 

Damn, I was just about to pull out my piggy bank and ask Kai if he takes Nickles and Pennies!

I think the reason why NADA prices are like they are is because they don't take into account the "fickle" Ferrari market and just give an assessment of a used car. Speaking of which, for my own curiosity, would anyone please research the FML to see what my car is worth?

Thanks!

Dan Ramos
Snohomish, WA
'76 308 GTB
'01 Duc 996 SPS
'03 Duc ST4s ABS

 

Okay, time for me to jump in here...

Let me preface my comments; I am friends with both of these guys, and know them to be upstanding, and honest "gentleman" (I think one can see this by following this thread). I have also seen both cars "in the flesh". I hope I don't tick either of them off with my honest assessment....

About the 1986 328 GTB...this is admittedly a very nice car cosmetically (I am into nice cosmetics BTW), it looks great! It also has low miles, yet has been driven sufficiently to not be catagorized as a "garage queen". Kie has continued to maintain the car in good order. 328GTB's are relatively rare (I think less than 1,000 produced worldwide during the four years of production), but I have never thought they were worth much of a premium, since the market has always favored the GTS. Though "track rats" prefer the GTB, the market is not in their favor on resale. My opinion, with the car needing a major service (belts, tensioners, valve adjust, fluids, etc.) $40k.

Dan's 76 308 GTB...this car is desireable for being an "early" 308 with the 240hp motor, versus the later 78-79 205hp motor. Pluses are the Tubi headers, Tubi exhaust, reproduction 16" QV wheels, and good mechanical condition. Negatives are the cosmetics (remember, I am into nice cosmetics). Paint is..well, honestly, "tired". Interior has few major flaws, but is also "tired". I don't recall all the specifics, but Kie is saying new seat covers at the least...that can easily cost $2k for nice reproduction seat skins. I'll go with what Dan says, and say the Tubi stuff and wheels offsets the paint...but what about the interior? I gotta price his car at $25k tops.

So, that leaves us $15k apart...

Man, did I make anyone mad here? You guys still my friends?

Dave

 

Dave:

Question now is should someone spend $15K or more to trade a 308 for a 328. IMHO, the answer is no. A 328 will not give you $15K more enjoyment over a 308.

Ken

 

That is ENTIRELY up to the individuals....but knowing Dan, I doubt he is going to part with one of his Ducs to make this happen.

 

i would pay more for a nice 76-77 GTB any day than the later carb cars. $25k for a nice 76 is too low. i had to go through almost 11 cars to find my 77gtb. i will not buy another gts, nor will i consider a 78 - newer. the early carb cars ,sound, feel, and drive different from the later carb cars. i would pay a premium for a euro glass dry sump '75 or 76. take a wet sump 308 on a track with good suspension and tires and watch the the car starve for oil and fuel in opposite corners. same with on and off ramps on the interstate roads.

the 77 gtb is closer to what i had in mind for a carb 308 to be. this is a VERY personal , biased opinion. but it is mine to offer. no way a nice 76 brings only $25k unless it is beat all to hell. i got almost that much for a brown '78 with fully documented FRAME DAMAGE. no disrespect but some of you guys are nuts. look at what the cars are SELLING for. i am going to burn for this, but this is how i feel. MICHAEL.