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77 308 -- FRAM PH8A oil filter OK?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by greg328, May 2, 2005.

  1. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    I'm hearing differing stories on FRAM oil filters. Can anybody confirm/deny that a FRAM PH8A oil filter is OK for my car--1977 308 GTB?

    It's orange, with a black, rough dome for better grip. Does it have a stand pipe/can it withstand the pressure/RPMs? Will it starve the engine of oil pressure on startup?


    TIA,
    Greg
     
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  3. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    I wouldn't recommend it.
     
  4. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    What would you recommend? This was put when I bought it, 6 months ago, when the oil was changed. I haven't noticed any detrimental performance/behaviour.

    Does this model have a stand pipe?

    Anybody with some definitive answers?
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    20,142
    Texas
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    Steve Magnusson
    No standpipe in the Fram PH8A. Use the Fram PH2804-1 if you want to use the Fram brand, but the Baldwin or UFI are better quality IMO. The outer case on the Fram PH8A is also less rugged (lower burst pressure) than the Fram PH2804-1 (or the Baldwin and UFI).

    The standpipe isn't a super-critical issue if you have the cold fast idle disabled and you don't have long periods of disuse. The standpipe was added as the "fix" for the US 308 seizing a camshaft at cold start-up after a long period of disuse.
     
  6. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    What is wrong with Baldwin B253? I think it is far superior to Fram. IMO 6 months is well over due for an oil change but this is MHO.
    You may want to use this as an indicator of how your car was maintained.
     
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  8. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
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    Greg
    I've only driven the car 600 miles in these past 6 months. Is it really time for an oil change? The oil appears very clean.

    By the way, this car was maintained very nicely, that's why I bought it.

    Steve,

    Thanks for the info on the stand pipe. Interesting. I use my car weekly, so I don't foresee long periods of disuse. I'll probably switch to a Baldwin or UFI, as you both recommend, at the next oil change.

    So, do you 308 owners REALLY change your oil every 6 months, even with less than 1000 miles on the current oil? That seems a bit much......!
    I mean, these are only cars, not the space shuttle..!!!!!

    Greg
     
  9. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,366
    NY
    I use the Baldwin B253 and have had no issues. I bought a half dozen of them at $9ea and am using 1 a year. Not a problem with the seal or pressure yet and they are RED.
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,001
    Groton, MA
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    Verell Boaen
    A car that's only lightly driven will still get condensation & combustion byproducts in the oil. Hence the 6-mo. rule of thumb you're hearing.

    I change the oil every fall before taking it off of the road for the MA salt season. Come spring, It's driven almost daily with occasional long highway runs. I put on 2500-3000 miles during the driving season. IMHO that's enough to quickly boil off any condensation from the winter's storage.

    I change the filter every other oil change based on evidence that a filter with some use actually does a better job as the larger porousities get filled in.

    Tried changing oil after winter storage, but the oil coming out was clear & I could not find any signs of condensation. Even after catching it in a clear container & letting it settle for several days.

    However, if I were doing infrequent low mileage short trips year round & only accumulating 1000-2000 miles/year, I'd change the oil every 6-months as it would be constantly accumulating combustion byproduct acids & humidity.

    Opinions vary, but oil is cheap.
     
  11. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    You're a legend for a reason!!

    Thanks for the valuable info. Much appreciated.

    How does my warm climate here in Houston affect my oil quality/impurities, if at all? Because we really don't experience a winter around here, my car will get driven year-round. Probably MORE in the cool season. This I would imagine would keep the oil from gathering condensation, etc.....

    Do you happen to know if my FRAM filter is designed to work upside down?

    TIA,
    Greg
     
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  13. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Manning, SC
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    Robert G. Zambelli
    When I serviced exotics in the 70s and 80s, I used ONLY Baldwin filters unless the customer directed me differently.

    The thing that convinced me was a display of virtually every filter on the market cut open for examination.

    The Baldwin internals were so far superior to the rest, it wasn't even a contest. The only brand that was on a par was Wix.
    The main can of some of the most popular filters felt about as strong as a beer can.

    The Baldwin B253 is designated as a high performance or "racing" filter and does indeed have a standpipe. I used that filter on every 308 and 246 as well as most V-12s from the 330 on up.The early V-12 used a combination full-flow and by-pass. I used Baldwins on them also - just can't remember the numbers.

    Bob Z
     
  14. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,246
    USA
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    Hugh G. Rection
    I would be entirely comfortable with annual changes with your driving habits. Someone recently had an oil analysis done (I think on a 246) with Mobil 1. About one year had passed, and less than 1k miles. Oil tested just fine.
     
  15. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
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    Greg
    Thanks Bob and Dave (.. or is that Hugh G. Rection......LOL!!!)

    Greg
     
  16. Bandit

    Bandit Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2003
    491
    Central MS
    Full Name:
    Mike B.
    I wouldn't continue to use the PH8A. When I went looking for sources for Baldwin filters, the local trucker supply store cross referenced the B253 since they weren't in stock and they would only sell by the case. They came back with another number that was for "Ford, non-racing applications." I am thinking that the high oil pressure of the Ferrari required a more substantial casing on the filter than is provided by the standard unit. I passed and bought Baldwin over the internet.

    Fram makes some heavy duty racing filters that might work, but I understand that they don't filter as well as the Baldwin ones.

    Personally, I would just get a few B253's.
     
  17. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,001
    Groton, MA
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    Verell Boaen
    Didn't address your initial question.

    Fram Extra Guard PH8A does NOT have the standpipe that's highly desirable for upside down mounting. Especially desirable when the car's infrequently driven as earlier posts in this thread mention.

    A while ago Russ W. Knize did a detailed dissection & analysis of most brands of oil filters. The study focused on observed characteristics & he made a strong effort to keep it factual. There are still copies on the web:

    Links to 'Engine Oil Filter Study' by Russ W. Knize
    This link seems to be the Knize family site, looks more up to date than the 2nd link:

    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

    Think this is the original version that I read several years ago:

    http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html#fram

    In addition to the factual study, Russ also wrote up his conclusions & opinions in his 'Oil Filters Overview' page. It's well worth reading as the study gave him in depth exposure to the filters:

    Links to 'Oil Filter Overview' by Russ W. Knize
    Knize family site/ probably most up to date:

    http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
    Alternate link, possibly an older version:

    http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html

    BOTTOM LINE:
    Baldwin made Russ' s Recommended Filters list

    Fram Extra Guard made a list too: Filters to Avoid

    Read these especially the fram extra guard comments & form your own opinion.
     
  18. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
    I love the grippy thing on the Fram but have heard enough stories of failure to steer me away. I use Wix now.

    I change my oil every 3 months because of condensation worries. If I didn't take so many short trips I'd go to 6 months. While I don't abuse the engine when cold, I also don't get it up to temperature every time out so frequent oil changes are in order.

    My compression last year was actually 10 lbs more than factory spec and only a .5% difference across the cylinders; I want to keep it that way so I'm anal about changing the oil. I also do the filter every time since I'm under the car anyway.

    Ken
     
  19. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Ken - as far as I'm concerned, Wix is one of the finest filters made.
    What model Ferrari do you use them on and what part #?
    Bob Z.
     
  20. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    Wow....
    What other marque generates enough passion and interest that we fervently discuss oils filters....?

    None that I can think of!

    Any Baldwin dealers in Houston?

    Greg
     
  21. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,920
    Outside Detroit
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    Don the 16th
    BUSTED! You didn't read Verell's links!
    Otherwise you'd have known that the entire oil filter testing he was referencing was for the lowly Mopar 4 cylinder!
    Heck, there's a whole website devoted to discussing oil and filters to the nth degree, it's called www.bobistheoilguy.com !
     
  22. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Greg,
    I change my oil in the fall before I put her away for the winter. I only do about 2500 miles a year, but hoping to improve that to 3K+ this year!

    PLEASE dump that POS Fram immediately. Buy a Baldwin. My local truck supply place has them in stock at about $8. I buy 3 or 4 at a whack and I always have a new one handy. They are red, they match the car, it's sweet. Also, they are generally agreed to be the best filter for a 308. What a deal at $8. The last UFI I bought was about $25.

    Go to: http://www.baldwinfilter.com/

    Put in your zip code and find the closest dealer, as simple as that! I'll bet there is a place that has them on the shelf within 10 miles of your front door for under $10. Don't take a chance with your baby....get a good filter. Fram is just not a good filter on a 308.

    Birdman
     
  23. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    Thanks, Birdman...

    I'll look into getting the Baldwin filters first thing tomorrow--I appreciate the info.....

    By the way--loving my new fusebox!!


    Greg
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Greg,
    Glad you like the fuseblocks!

    BTW, the filter you want is the B253. Someone already mentioned that but I thought I would just clarify.

    Birdman
     
  25. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    Thanks again..

    Greg
     
  26. winston

    winston Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    139
    foothills
    Full Name:
    don
    I am stuck with UFI for my 456, but I use Baldwins for my Audi. Try adiesel.com
    for Baldwin Filters. They are inexpensive and provide very good service.
    Winston
     
  27. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,134
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    Thanks, Don.

    I'll check that out..

    Greg
     
  28. AFire

    AFire Karting

    Jun 1, 2004
    97
    Please, can I use a CHAMPION oil filter at the 308 GTB ?

    Thanks,

    AFire
     

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