77 308 USA Model Won't start/stay running | FerrariChat

77 308 USA Model Won't start/stay running

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Neilg, Jun 29, 2018.

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  1. Neilg

    Neilg Karting

    Feb 16, 2001
    241
    Accokeek, Md.
    Full Name:
    Neil Green
    Am hoping folks can help - my 1977 308 GTB USA Model was converted over to pertronix electrical ignition several years back as I was fouling plugs like crazy with the old breaker points. This winter I did a clutch replacement and timing belts/valve shims adjustment. Went to start it for the first time, turns over fine and tries to start but just won't have had several loud backfires and flames out of the carbs (I have the airbox off) - I believe I have the distributor rotors for bank 1-4 and 5-8 set properly as I turned the flywheel to AF-7 for bank 1-4, mounted the distributor with rotor pointing towards the red mark on dist housing which I understand is indicative of # 1 firing, and on bank 5-8 manually turned the flywheel til I got the AF-7 mark for bank 5-8 and similarly lined up the rotor with the red mark on the dist housing like I did with bank 1-4. Is this correct? The car is trying to start so I believe the flywheel/starter motor is engaging properly and the timing belts were put on exactly the positions the ones I took off were in (checked cam journal marks also - they were spot on) - any ideas? I also put new NKG BPR5ES plugs in - any ideas? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Neilg

    Neilg Karting

    Feb 16, 2001
    241
    Accokeek, Md.
    Full Name:
    Neil Green
    I meant to add the Pertronix units are installed in the rear distributor cap, the 5-8 distributor is utilized just to deliver spark to that bank -
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,839
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    It's also important that when the dist rotor is pointing towards the red mark and the flywheel is at AF-7 that:

    1. that bank is at the end of the compression stroke for cyl #1 (or #5), not the exhaust stroke (for #1, you can look in thru the oil filler opening to confirm/deny the #1 valves, and then just rotate the crankshaft 90 deg in the direction of normal operation and that AF-7 will be #5 at the end of its compression stroke), and

    2. the pick-up for that bank is at its firing point (any possibility the connections for the two pick-ups have been swapped?).

    Are you meeting those conditions as well?
     
  4. Neilg

    Neilg Karting

    Feb 16, 2001
    241
    Accokeek, Md.
    Full Name:
    Neil Green
    Steve, thanks for the reply - I have the rotors in the positions described above, I have the 2 leads from the R2 mark on Dist 1-4 going to the coil which feeds 5-8, and the other pick-up (which is on the left side of the 1-4 distributor cap is feeding the coil which feeds 1-4 bank - I drew a wiring diagram last Winter prior to removal as I would not remember otherwise - do you know if I have these 2 pick-ups backwards? The car is backfiring pretty bad and still wont start.
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,839
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #5 Steve Magnusson, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
    The dist rotor rotates CW (as viewed looking down at the top of the rotor) so the 1-4 pick-up should be mounted 135 (or 225) deg CCW before the 5-8 pick-up.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,839
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    But the 1-4 pick-up has to be the one being triggered when the 1-4 rotor is pointing at the red mark. Alternatively, you could just use a timing light during starter motor cranking to confirm/deny if the # 1 spark plug is being fired when the crankshaft is at/near the 1-4 AF-7 mark.
     
  7. Neilg

    Neilg Karting

    Feb 16, 2001
    241
    Accokeek, Md.
    Full Name:
    Neil Green
    Steve, thanks - I did have the Pertronix pickups wired to the proper coils. You were right, I had the 5-8 distributor off phase, when I followed your instruction to line up Distributor 1-4 with the TDC of cylinder 1, then turn the crankshaft 90 degrees CW I saw on the flywheel the PM 5-8 along with the AF-7 mark, and lined up the rotor to the distributor red mark and the engine fired up nicely, now just timing it at 1000RPM - fortunately the prior mechanic who did the timing belts a long time ago marked these points with red paint so very easy to see with the timing strobe. Thanks again!
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,839
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Glad that you got it sorted. It was/is a little confusing to have a system where the crankshaft is put in a single rotational position to install all of the cams, but the crankshaft is put in two different rotational positions to install each distributor.
     

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