News

777 engine failure KDEN UA328

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by ersatzS2, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,320
    North Pole AK
    767 was the first two engine certified for ETOPS. ETOPS specifies how far, in flight time, an aircraft can be from a suitable landing strip. There are many factors that determine how long that can be. Usually it is 180 minutes (for 2 engines, I believe more than 2 engines can go up to 240 mins) but several factors can lower that to 120 minutes or less. Each airplane is given special maintenance inspections prior to each ETOPS flight. A reduction in ETOPS time can be caused by unreliable aircraft at the given airline. Let’s say airline X has had a lot of maintenance issues this can lower that airlines ETOPS time. The other interesting thing is the “suitable” landing strip. While the airport can have the airplane safely land often times it can be at an airfield where there are no passenger services. A few years back a Delta 767 landed at Cold Bay AK. I think the population of the town literally doubled when the airplane landed. Talking to the pilots it was an interesting event! The town opened up places for the people to stay, like the fire station etc. Delta dispatched another jet to pick up the passengers fairly quickly but Cold Bay is a long way from pretty much every where and if I remember correctly the pax were there for about 12 hours.

    As far as limiting altitude when flying over the North Pole I’ve never heard of this. I’ve been to about N80 and never had to fly at a lower altitude.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    81,581
    Vegas baby
    Missing fan blade clearly seen in this video

     
    thecarreaper likes this.
  4. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    8,035
    Chicago USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    Glad I was able to teach you something new. Check the flight plans for cargo and passenger jets flying the North Pole routes in the winter.
     
  5. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,573
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    The brown colored area is the fan blade containment, i.e. mostly dry kevlar with outer layer of kevlar with resin. It is designed, and full scale tested, to contain a fan blade, or at least a partial fan blade. Interesting, sort of, that this appears intact. This means the blade flew forward after separating and impacted the nose cowl, hence why the nose cowl separated. Remainder of cowling was either compromised by that departure or flew off due to air loads after the nose cowl departed.
     
  6. To remove this ad click here.

  7. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,573
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    So partial blade failure. Not unusual for a blade to fly forward after failure, it is after all producing 'lift'.
     
    afterburner and thecarreaper like this.
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,062
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    US and Japanese airlines flying 777s with the P&W engines have been grounded as a precaution. F-14 and F-111 aircrews have had some bad experiences with P&W turbofans, too. Ours were admittedly a little more high strung.
     
  9. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    81,581
    Vegas baby
    United took a deal with Boeing to take 777’s at a discount and cancel Dreamliner orders because Boeing was falling behind.

    I wonder how that decision looks now.
     
  10. G8TD

    G8TD Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2004
    71
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I've flown the 777 many times over the Pole from NY to China. We were never altitude limited for the engine. I have had to descend to a lower altitude for reaching the minimum fuel temp limit when extremely North. It's till pretty rare to have to descend for any reason other than the wind or the ride.

    This airplane was one of the legacy UAL models (A/B). The only engine problem I ever encountered was on a B Model with the PW engines. I've never seen an engine problem with the GE equipped C models.
     
    Boomhauer and BMW.SauberF1Team like this.
  11. To remove this ad click here.

  12. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    8,035
    Chicago USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    I was told that if it reached a certain below zero temp the engines performance drops so they only go to 20,000 feet during the deep winter as the atmosphere drops due to the extreme cold air's density . Is that not true?
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,062
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Great airframe, crummy engines.
     
    Boomhauer likes this.
  14. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,573
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Completely different engines with different technology in construction of the fan blades.
     
  15. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    13,219
    Yep.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/boeing-747-cargo-plane-drops-engine-parts-netherlands-n1258485

     
  16. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,573
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
  17. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    8,035
    Chicago USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    What I was talking about was dispatchers routing aircraft under the tropopause and going where there was atmosphere with denser air in the winter. Also I heard temps can get as low as -100F in the winter near the North Pole wich they try to avoid as most jet engines don't like it that cold :). During the summer the tropopause goes to a higher altitude. Sorry this has nothing to do with this engine failure but I was amazed by this when told by a few of my dispatcher friends.
     
  18. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    74,548
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
  19. Dicecal

    Dicecal Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 15, 2015
    1,322
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Rob
    The deal was for 777-300 with GE engines...

    The original UAL 777 A models have the PW engines that have thrown fan blades.
     
  20. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    81,581
    Vegas baby
    The problem is the public doesn't understand this.
     
  21. Dicecal

    Dicecal Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 15, 2015
    1,322
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Rob
    True, only 24 of that type flying right now have been removed from service. Losing the engine in a 777 is not the problem, not being contained is! The additional drag of losing the cowling and other parts of the engine covering could be problematic at the wrong place in the middle of the ocean. The additional fuel burn becomes critical.
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    81,581
    Vegas baby
    United removed all its 747's from SFO to Asia and replaced them with 777's. Probably the biggest downgrade ever for the coach passenger.
     
  23. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,573
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Wasn't this considered a contributing factor to the BA 777 'crash' at Heathrow? I believe they had ice in the fuel system causing fuel starvation.
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,062
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Being a Boeing airframe really had nothing to do with these incidents. But the dummies in the press do not know that.
     
  25. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,573
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Even a fully intact engine and cowling that is shutdown, i.e. just windmilling, will cause substantial drag. Not sure if etops numbers are based on an intact windmilling engine or one with missing parts. For an engine with an imbalance, such as thrown blade, there is also a large increase in loads and extensive analysis is done to ensure the engine mounts/nacelles/wing and even some fuselage structure does not suffer a failure from fatigue.
     
    Jaguar36 likes this.
  26. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    8,035
    Chicago USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    It says that was a Rolls Royce Trent 800 FOHE issue. Not sure if the routing had anything to do with it but it could be. By the way, what made me originally look into these routings was I noticed a 777 ORD- DEL flight was routed at 14,000 feet over the pole on a very very cold winter day. Had to do a double take and see why
     

Share This Page