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78-79 carb owners please respond...help!!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by groovzilla, Nov 28, 2003.

  1. groovzilla

    groovzilla Karting

    Nov 28, 2003
    117
    seattle, wa.
    Full Name:
    william
    ok heres the situation...i have found 2 308GTS carb cars....considering any car i buy will be completely buyer inspected with leakdown test, etc., which car would you buy if money was an issue..(i have 3 porsches and wife will kill if i buy over $26K)

    first car i am looking at has 37,000 undocumented miles(no records/manuals)...some schmuck put the rear wing on this car to make it look newer??...it has very clean interior and excellent exterior..$27K

    second car has 73k miles...all service records...excellent inside and out like the first car..$21K

    which one would you buy considering the miles and $$...and my wife..

    ***i would also like to get some feedback from 78-79 308 owners who's cars have high miles(65-100K)...let me know some of the larger issues when reaching the 75K mark...

    all posts appreciated greatly!!

    william ceriale seattle wa. (porsche 356's: silver 53/ silver 58/ silver59)

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  3. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    44,163
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    //wife will kill if i buy over $26K//

    She'll also kill if you have to shell out more bucks for repairs on the car that cost 27K. Since this choice has no documentation, too many unknowns may mean a greater likelihood of expense in the long run, thereby ensuring an early demise - to you.

    I've not owned a Ferrari, but that is the conclusion I have reached after:

    a) reading many annotations attesting to the care and feeding of Ferraris, particularly one such as the 308 which has a long shelf-life, and the importance of record-keeping.

    b) personal experience with other makes - documented cars never gave me the headaches undocumented cars did.

    After all, you're either buying somebody else's headache, or getting a good deal. Somebody else's headache more than likely doesn't have records of any DEScription, thereby leaving a new-to-me caretaker with no place to run and hide from the rolling pin.
     
  4. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    Altho lack of records isn't a total killer, I'd like to see SOMETHING recent in service history. ie: If the first 15 years or so are missing, good service history for the last 5-8 years should indicate that it's been taken care of, and the recent owner has perhaps made up for the neglect of the first 15 years.

    However......

    The wing: If someone has such total lack of taste and regard for the car to do such a thing, I'd SERIOUSLY be suspect of his capability to properly care for such a maintenance intensive vehicle.

    Pass on the 'winged wonder'. Big time.

    As for the other car: It would totally depand on condition. 73K is getting a bit long in the tooth, but if meticulously cared for, it could have another 50K left in it. Get an expert opinion on it. If it passes STRICT inspection, buy it.
     
  5. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    I have a 308 with 112K. You can buy one with all the records in the world and it could still break. Car runs great and is very reliable.
     
  6. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Any reason why you are just sticking to a 78 or 79 model?
     
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  8. groovzilla

    groovzilla Karting

    Nov 28, 2003
    117
    seattle, wa.
    Full Name:
    william
    dave i really like the carb cars....
     
  9. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Then you might want to look at a 76 or 77...
    They are Carb, have more HP, and if you get a 76 or early 77 then the performance is even greater because the glass body is 200lbs less than a steel body.
    Just a thought.
     
  10. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    Dave's right. The biggest difference is the cams were changed in, I believe, 1978. Also, later cars had cats, but even removing these doesn't bring hp up to earlier standards.

    Dave Handa had a 78 or 79 GTS. He had it 'optimized' on a dyno, and was getting somewhere around 180-185 RWHP, as I recall. (Dave?) My 'unoptimized' (ie - dead stock) 75 got 198 RWHP. With 12K miles on the plugs, original plug wires, and carbs in bad need of overhaul.
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,064
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    Hans,
    Yes the later 78-79 carb 308s are only 205hp, versus the 230-240hp of the earlier 75-77 cars. Mine with a fresh 30k service and much tuning, (removal of cats, K&N air filter, rejetted carbs) ended up with a (corrected) 214hp at the crank (178 at the wheels).

    I left a message with William to call me and discuss his requirements in detail...He lives here in Seattle.

    Dave
     
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  13. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 7, 2002
    9,880
    New Jersey
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    Barry Wolinsky
    I'd like to chime in along with Dave, Dave and 4re. I have a 1976 GTB Fiberglass and drove some '78 and '79 308s while looking for my car. The difference was noticeable, attributable to the lighter fiberglass body and different cams. My car has a Euro ANSA muffler. There were a few fiberglass GTBs listed in the recent FML which might interest you, groovzilla, unless you have your heart set on a GTS in which case you have to go with a '78 or '79. I think the earliest of the '78s had no catalytic converters, but had the thermal reactor type muffler found on the '75-'77s

    Barry
     
  14. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Before I bought my first Ferrari, I did a good solid year of research, and decided that without owning a lift at home,
    the easiest car for me to service would be the 3xx line.
    I tend to dig the the original raw unrefined look of the early 308 compared to the final 328 version of the line.
    As a side note, I think I prefer first albums from bands as well,
    as opposed to their latest offerings...
    The first Van Halen, or Def Leopard albums for example had that raw energy that just disappeared as they polished there studio sound.
    OK, back on track...
    When I was searching for a 308, I was originally looking for an early glass/Euro dry-sump car...
    Most of the 1975 models had been scooped up by collectors so I was concentrating on a 76 or early 77 model.
    These early Euro cars had the best power to weight ratio of any of the 308 series.
    But I searched, and I searched, and for nine months looked at cars that were trashed, or garage queens.
    One even only had 712 miles on the OD, what a wast.
    At any rate, after a bout with a 79 Boxer, I settled on a late 77 steel body GTB that needed a little TLC.
    Even with the heavier body, the 77 still has hotter cams than the 78 and later cars.
    It has been a while, but if I remember right I think I paid $26k US for the car.
    And then turned around and dumped around 8k right off the bat to get the car up to snuff.
    It needed a new muffler when I bought the car, so a new Tubi was in order.
    And then new tires, belts, interior leather, electronic ignition, so on...
    No matter which model you end up getting in the end,
    one thing to remember about these cars, is there age.
    Even if you find a nice example of a 308,
    unless it has had all of it's rubber parts replaced,
    things like belts, hoses, fuel lines and bushings, then these will need to be replaced at some point just because of the aging process.
    One of the expenses you might want to factor in, in your quest for a 308.
     
  15. rivee

    rivee F1 Rookie

    Jan 20, 2002
    3,725
    Nowhere important, USA
    Full Name:
    John
    I bought my 78 gts over 2 years ago. It also had the rear wing mounted on the rear bonnet, but it didn't seem to be any trashier than others I had seen. It had 64,000 miles on it with little or no documentation.

    One thing apparent to me is that these cars are very resiliant. They can handle a lot of abuse, odviously, as was the story of mine. I've done a lot of work on it the past 2 years, not only because it needed it, but I also wanted a dependable car.

    It is a 25 year old car, but in the last 2 years I've touched every nut, bolt, and rivit on it. It's called "piece of mind". Now I have a dependable car that I'm not afraid to take anywhere.

    I would have to guess that I've easily equaled or doubled what I paid for the car in repairs and/or upgrades. (new motor, seats, rust repair, suspension, clutch, etc...)
     
  16. pcelenta

    pcelenta Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    216
    william,
    I'd go with the documented car...no questions asked..higher milage means the car was driven and these cars need to be driven...I have had my 78 gts for almost 10 years now. when I bought it it had 41k one owner documented miles on it which was higher than most that I had seen, (why is it that the ones we question all seem to have 30k on them now and have new paint etc? must be that speedometer sender :) )...it now has 72k miles and runs as good as it did at 41k miles. The suspensions take a beating on these cars and at 72k miles, mine is now ready for all suspension bushings and a new steering rack (winter project)....also, all cooling hoses, including the dreaded heater hose should be replaced. From an engine stand point, on the higher milage side, most will have had there heads off for a valve and stem seal job..if not, this is something that might have to be done. All in all, what you are looking at with the 308, is an incredibly good looking, great sounding...Italian Kit Car (you will soon learn this after seeing how the body and electrics are put together and after working on them)
     
  17. nevpugh68

    nevpugh68 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    49
    Ashby de la Zouch, UK
    Full Name:
    Neville Pugh
    I'd also go for the fully documented car. And remember, that whilst you are all calling 73k "high", it's still less than 3000 miles per year .... just enough to keep everything moving and lubricated.
     

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