787 fire at Boston Logan

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by DMC, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. ATTENTION: http/https Bug Fix! Most of us have been experiencing problems staying logged in as we navigate the site. That is simply the result of links varying between http and https, which each require different logons. To resolve we are going to force https starting sometime Wednesday. However, you may have problems accessing FerrariChat until after you log out, clear cookies/browser cache, and log back on. Keep in mind my email is admin@ferrarichat.com if you do have access problems after Wednesday. Thanks!
  1. DMC

    DMC Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2002
    2,361
    WI/IL
    Full Name:
    Dean
  2. jcurry

    jcurry F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    6,976
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Some rather serious systems related teething issues with this airplane.
     
  3. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    5,589
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Yep, not very reassuring, every plane has teething issues, but the A380 and the 787 have not had smooth entry into service.
     
  4. rdefabri

    rdefabri Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    24,047
    NJ
  5. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2006
    1,595
    Full Name:
    Ferrari-tech
  6. rdefabri

    rdefabri Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    24,047
    NJ
    Well, I spelled "flier" wrong, so I can't be that smart! ;)


    ****EDIT - ok, maybe not per this site: http://grammarist.com/spelling/flier-flyer/
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2006
    1,595
    Full Name:
    Ferrari-tech
    LOL i spelled it the same as you...spell check fixed it for me
     
  9. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
    8,580
    El Paso, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Guess
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    27,488
    Albuquerque, NM
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    APU battery reported as the cause on the cargo bay fire. Fuel leak fixed on the other one and she departed soon after.

    Just teething problems on a new aircraft.
     
  11. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2003
    5,497
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    Having been there on 8 new Boeing airplane programs, I have to agree with you ,Taz. I was thinking about things that happened on each one and in the old days, the public never heard about them unless there was a crash. I can and have mentioned some bizarre things that happened on some of the programs but I have a feeling that there is some skill dilution in play here. Too many new young people with thin experience in the disciplines and control.
     
  12. rdefabri

    rdefabri Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    24,047
    NJ
    I'd have to imagine there is data kept on the crash ratio by plane / manufacturer...I'd be curious to see these (although I should be careful what I wish for...I'm traveling in 2 weeks!!!).

    Any idea if there's something public?
     
  13. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
    8,580
    El Paso, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Guess
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    53,047
    Vegas baby
    My boss just flew a Dreamliner today from Tokyo to LA. He loved it.
     
  16. jcurry

    jcurry F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    6,976
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
  17. jcurry

    jcurry F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    6,976
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    On 777 the design group hierarchy was really deep. Grunts were both new hires and experienced engineers (lot of contract guys). Leads almost all had prior new airplane development experience, i.e. 757/767. Principal engineers, above the leads, typically had multiple new airplane development experience. I doubt if the 787 had the same depth, especially in the vendor teams. Many of the the new hires on the 777 had already been promoted into supervisor/managerial roles, thus the design teams lost out on a lot of the lessons learned of seasoned veterans.
     
  18. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    5,589
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Brian
    United confirmed one of their 787 also had wiring problems yesterday.
     
  19. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2003
    5,497
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    I worked from the start on the 777 when it was called the 767-X. When it really began to jell it appeared that the company trolled through every department and office and scooped up the best and most experienced gang they could find. I never worked with a more cohesive, dedicated, helpful, agreeable, and skilled bunch of people on any previous program. Mulally had a lot to do with that, too.
     
  20. nzporsche944s2

    Jul 12, 2012
    13

    Here you go!

    http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/
     
  21. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    10,304
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    Well, four of the Boeings rank 3/4/5/6 and the best Airbus is 7, but newer aircraft like 777s and A330s are not included. I wonder if the 767 ranking includes Egyptair, which was suspected to be a pilot suicide?

    I'm interested in the fact that one crash makes AirTran (which I fly often) seem comparatively unsafe, but that was back in the ValuJet days, so it probably shouldn't even count.
     
  22. rdefabri

    rdefabri Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    24,047
    NJ
    Agreed - the data isn't detailed enough to glean much.

    Interesting nonetheless!
     
  23. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
    1,748
    Indianapolis
    #21 solofast, Jan 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    In more recent times we are seeing the push to the "all electric" airplane, and I don't know that this is such a good thing.

    Electric components tend to be less labor intensive than hydraulic stuff to maintain, but when it goes south it goes in a big way and nothing works. Most hydraulic problems are leaks and, while they stop you from taking off, they don't usually fail in a big way once you are in the air.

    The airlines want the lowest maintenance aircraft, and for sure the electric stuff doesn't require the labor hours to keep it up to snuff, but when you are flying you don't want something critical to totally break down.

    I know there are a lot of improvements in electrical stuff, but it doesn't tend to be any lighter, and if you do the FMECA on it, it isn't always violins and roses... Just sayin...

    Also it appears that it was a lithium ion battery that failed. From AvLeak this morning..

    "The event centered on a lithium ion battery unit, located in the aft electrical/electronics (E/E) bay, which is designed to start the auxiliary power unit (APU) and provide back-up lighting power"

    While they are great at capacity, LI batteries are more prone to spectacular failures...
     
  24. BubblesQuah

    BubblesQuah F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,798
    Charlotte
  25. BeachBum

    BeachBum Formula 3

    Fuel leak, hydrolic leak, cracked windshield, sounds more like maintinence problems to me.
     
  26. jcurry

    jcurry F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    6,976
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Given time in service none of these are maintenance issues. Possibly just minor assy/instl issues, which may be fixed by shop floor job cards or may require dwg changes.

    Cracked windshield could be much more. What we (the public) don't know is the history of any windshield issues during the flight test program, or whether this airplane is one of the flight test airplanes and a fleet leader (flight time). The cockpit structure has very complex load paths due to geometry and number of cutouts (for windshields). It can be difficult to install a windshield to not pick up any loads for which it is not designed.
     
  27. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,611
    Land of Slugs & Moss
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    If I'm not mistaken these are the largest compound-curve windshields in the #1 position currently in service. Most have flat glass, left and right #1.
     

Share This Page