Ummm Yep! My roommates idea of a model airplane kit customization.... I asked him about weight and balance... And he replied It weighs about 7 ounces, so he isn't worried about balance. Super Glue will take care of keeping it on the stand. Of course, he is smokin' something without any name on the thing... Says he tore off the filter, and lit the opposite end..... Uh-Huh! A likely story.
Air France isn't the only one that likes the 777. A lot of other airlines fly it and have dubbed it the WGA...Worlds' Greatest Airplane. No wonder! I was one of the original gang that created it in 1989-1990. I designed the little man who turns out the light in the wheelwell after the doors close. Switches
Some 777's have been ordered as BBJ's, the 787 is being offered and there is a fair number of 747 BBJ's already in service (mostly conversions). Scroll down the menu on the left for more info on the BBJ line up, http://www.boeing.com/commercial/products.html
Yeah, I heard about the 787 and 747-8 BBJ orders. I wonder who orders something like that. I know some Hong Kong businessman ordered a 787 BBJ. I don't know which model. The -9 has got an incredible range and I can understand its purpose for international business travel. I heard a few of the 747-8 BBJs were ordered by a charter service. Other than that, are there really have of the 747 BBJs in private hands, not corporations? There was a 747 at the Kentucky Derby some years ago that belonged to someone in the UAE. They had a few stables in it to transport their horses. It was a 747-SP I believe. The only problem I see with the 777 and 747 BBJs are takeoff and landing distances. It limits where you can travel I suppose. The 767 has a noticeably shorter runway allowances compared to the 777, but I'm not certain on the 787 at the moment. Edit: 777 has 4,786 sq ft and 747-8 has same exact? Seriously? The 777-300ER is the only one that can come with the GE90-115B, correct? The -200LR has a further range, but I don't know why. I wonder if you could get the cargo hold in a 747-8 converted to living space with windows added. Maybe even a garage in there, too. Triple decker.
^I figured out the answer to a few of my questions. -200LR can have the GE90-115B as an option -300ER is standard. -200LR just has larger fuel tanks. I wonder what a 747 would look like with four -115Bs...
. As far as I know the 747's are used by corporations and government entities. In BBJ trim all of the models weigh considerably less, by quite a bit, in comparison to a loaded passenger version. A 747 that is nearly empty can take off in a surprisingly short distance and climb angle is impressive. Same for the 777-200 with GE90's or 110's. I have witnessed numerous "short field" take-offs and landings when working out on the flightline and was very surprised at how quickly they could get off but this was while empty and nearly full power, hard rotation and steep climb angle.. The 747 IS a heavy, as is the 777, so it wouldn't be able to land on load restricted runways that would normally handle 737's for example. I'm guessing anyone flying a 747 would have a major destination in mind anyway . The 747 should have more space with the upper deck included. As it stands, there is enough room to stand straight up ABOVE the main passenger compartment ceiling and they are busy designing and installing sleeping suites for those areas. The 777 has them too but you can't stand straight up in them, (I'm 6' tall.)
Would it be possible to raise the main floor level as to give more headroom in the cargo hold? Could the cargo hold be converted to living space with windows added?
It's possible but not practical. The re-engineering would be more difficult than just designing an all new A/P. It's funny you should ask about the cargo hold as additional use options. There is a self contained crew rest unit that installs in the lower lobe of the 777, accessed from above through a ladder in the floor of a "closet" in the main passenger cabin. We call it the "Superman closet". People go in and disappear. The same occurs when people go in to climb the stairs to the overhead crew rest units, the largest having 8 berths in the aft body section. About 15 years ago there was discussion at McDonnel Douglas about using the lower lobe of the MD11 as a passenger alternative. What a site that would be, looking out your lower lobe window during a crosswind landing!
What's the height of the cargo hold in the 777 and 747? I've seen some containers for the 747 that are 5'4", but I think there must be some room left above that. No real need for a BBJ to have a complete cargo hold since it will never transport that much luggage/goods. Btw, that movie Air Force One (with that guy in your avatar ) had that stair case going down to the cargo hold. Does the actual one have that?
That movie made the lower lobe of the 747 look like the Holland Tunnel. There is very little headroom and even less space down there. The area where they filmed the shooting scene ( with all the flashing lights on the panels) is too tight for anyone to squirm through much less have a running gun battle. AND anybody shooting a gun down there would short out the main power panels and put enough holes in the fuselage skin to cause major decompression. So you have a major fire going on while you are struggling to breathe. If I remember correctly, the space above a cargo container and the floor beams is about 1.5 inches. There are stantions that support the ends of the floor beams and they are about one to two inches outboard of the containers so the cheek areas outboard of the stantions are full of tubing , cables, and wiring, and A/C ducts. Any rest stations or other human accommodations are in between the stantions. Windows are out of the question. Raising the floor beams in a large jet would require a total re-engineering of the fuselage since the floor beams not only support the floor but tie the upper and lower lobes together.. The flight deck would not mach the floor level and the overhead would be compromised as well as raising the passenger windows. It would be cheaper to buy an A380 fuselage and who would want to do that ? Switches
.If I stand straight up in the lower lobe of a 777 my head is up in between the floor beams, almost to the bottom of the floor panels. The 747 is about the same. With the liners installed I cannot stand up. (That's probably why I have back problems) There is a tiny hatch under the carpet in the main cabin floor that will allow access to the electronics bay below for emergencies only. The EE bay is extremely tight and HOT!!. If the plane has luggage containers on board there is no other place to go but the EE bay. If the lower lobe is empty there is a door close to the cheek for access aft.
Here is a picture of an interior mock-up for a 747 VIP. SEATTLE (AP) - There's flying first class... and then there's flying VIP. Boeing has some ideas for the people who like to travel in luxury. At an aviation conference in Geneva, Boeing showed off designs for a VIP 747-8 -- its largest luxury jet with 5,000 square feet of cabin space. Possible features include vaulted ceilings, a spiral staircase and video wall displays. Boeing delivers the plane without the interior furnishing or exterior paint. Customers work with designers to personalize the interiors. Boeing says there are currently 22 of the 747s in VIP uses today. Undisclosed customers have ordered four of the 747-8 model, also called the Intercontinental, which is scheduled to enter commercial service in 2010. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Spasso, SWITCHES, thanks for all the responses! Definitely clears up a lot of questions I had. Very cool to hear the stories from those that worked on the plane.
Enjoyable. I also worked on Travolta's 707 before it went to Quantas in the early 60's . I was in charge of the wiring and plumbing installation drawings for the engines, struts, wings, landing gear, wheelwell, and keel beam. I also flew into Pinecastle Airbase in 1944 before it was Olrando International. Switches
I'm on one right now, looking at the "route and clamp" of major wire bundles in the main cabin overhead. I should be outside in the sunshine like the rest of the "smart" people.
That's okay, nobody around here can spell it right either, I think it's a French word or something.................................
After the age of 12, spelling and spelling bees don't matter anymore. Btw, you can get a spell checking plug-in for Firefox and it can correct it right away. Btw, I know you mentioned the crew rest area below the flight deck in the 777. Is this the "crown" that is referred to in the 747 and 777 crew rest areas? Is the 747 at the top curvature of the aircraft and the 777 at the bottom?
The area aft of the cockpit/flight deck of the 747 is the " upper class " hump accomodation for first class or luxury travel. The area over the passenger deck is the overhead where crew rest and in some cases, high paid rest areas for passengers is located. I'm not current with the latest configurations in the overhead spaces of the 747 or 777 but I know that a great deal of design effort has been expended on both the upper " crown areas" and cargo areas on both airplanes. The 767 overhead is small and very crowded with equipment and systems. The 747 and 777 are comparatively open and workable for special accommodations. With the 777 capable of cruising for 22 hours, the rest areas are more than a luxury gimmick, they are an important consideration. Switches
As SWITCHES said, the crew rest accommodations I mention are above the main passenger cabin in both airplanes (the "crown"), excluding the upper deck hump in the 747. Currently these are used for the crew only but word has it these will be available for the public in the near future, most likely on the 747-8 Intercontinental first.
I was thinking about BMW's confusion about the term "crown" and I realized that it could be confused with the second deck " hump" on the 747. This faring was the result of raising the flight deck above the main deck overhead so the nose could be swung up to end-load long cargo items. It didn't take long for someone to see the benefits in extending that fairing into a fancy passenger area. One airline refers to it as the " Big Top". So, it is just the upper deck on the later models of the 747. The crown line is the upper- most centerline contour in the loft of the fuselage. The opposite would be the keel line , or just plain " keel ", the lower-most centerline of the fuselage loft. All of this comes from the ship building art where the changing shapes and curves of the hull are no different than the fuselage of an airplane. It is often refered to as the " hull". A vertical theoretical line drawn between the the keel and crown points would be Buttock line 0, Any point outboard of Buttline 0 is identified by it's distance from BL0. The buttocks of a ship in the aft portion of the hull are aptly named. Any measurement from the bottom to the top of the hull is a waterline value. Self explanatory from the ship's hull sense. A ship's frames were identified as Stations , so measurements from the bow( or nose) are called stations and again identified by the distance from Station 0. In the practice of laying out the loft of a large airplane it is always good practice to locate station 0 a good distance ahead of the nose to account for protruding devices like booms or probs. It is also good practice to locate Waterline 0 a distance below the fuselage to account for things like refueling booms,etc. So, the keel line will always be a postive value of some distance from Waterline 0 and so will the point of the nose be some distance from Station 0. How the hell did I get into this from crown line??? Switches
^wow! Not sure I understood most of that since I'm more of a visual person. Here's an interesting picture that I think may help. http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/661/1125734ez3.jpg By "keel" you mean the bottom (blue) half the 747, right? What's that area on the same level as the flight deck, but at the very rear of this level (above the "D" in UNITED)? I think the rest area is the part below the flight deck, but above passengers on the main level if I read everything correctly...
