Not to hi-jack Paul's thread, but... The easiest way to lower your suspension on a 308 is with after-market shocks and springs.
So, can you be more specific? Any brands, suppliers, costs, etc. Do you have to mess with other adjustments to geometry to get correct camber? Any clearance issues with wheels? Thanks
I would like to know prices as well. Im sure the adjustable strut is the way to go. I was going to cut a full turn off each coil and grind a flat back on the end of the coil like original.
There's a fair amount of discussion on this including spring rate data on the old site. This is (I think) an area where more $ buys you a better performance and tuning option (allowing corner weighting et al) but how much each option is "worth" versus the cost incrementally is (at least for me) hard to judge and needs to be placed in perspective of what you are trying to get the car to do (less understeer, less body roll etc). The latter is a whole separate topic, but, some data, or at least someone else's experience might be helpful to those of you thinking of this. ARBs: Stock on the 308 B is 14mm rear, 18mm front. GTS is 18/18. 328 B is 15/18. I do not have the torsion measurements to hand (but had them run for the 308 B) I added adjustable ARBs front and rear with rod-end endlinks. After some calcs, guidance, a couple of seasons of experience on the track, reviewing the LM specs (for the GT4), I went with an adjustable front bar to give me the equivalent stiffness of a 22mm bar (and more). Rear I went to the equivalent of 15mm and 18mm thicknesses (stock on the 308 B is 14mm). Source: Saner Performance. Cost was $225 or 250 each including bushings and fixings. Springs: As I recall, the 308 B spring rates are 200 in/lb front and rear. The old site has this data (and the data for other cars) along with static spring lengths. I opted to go for a 25 - 30% stiffer spring which is about an inch shorter. Source: QV London. Price, I think about $300 (sorry, don't recall). Shocks: I stayed with the Konis, replaced with new. Did all the bushings. I think T Rutlands was the source (it is a year or so ago). I set the "wear" ["stiffness"] mechanism to 1 1/2 turns as I recall. Cost, $100 - 150 each I think. Don't recall price of bushings. Several people experience with 308s have driven the car (although not with the new springs/adj. front ARB -- those have been winter projects this year) and have commented on how well balanced the car is. We've played a lot with tire pressures, have used several choices of tire (Yokos and Kumhos) on the track. I'd love to hear experiences and settings of others but also do not want to hi-jack Paul's excellent thread. Paul, if I've done this, I apologise, get us back on track.
If we started talking about 550's or something along those lines, then YES you would be hijacking the thread. I need the info and its all relevant to the topic really, so I dont mind at all. Keep it coming. Here are some more pics of the quarter repairs Ill be making. Ive placed the replacment patch over the rot as a template to make my cut. My goal is a perfect butt weld and once painted and under coat re-applied inside the trunk, the repair will be invisible. I still havent had the time to pic up the replacement rear frame tubes lll be welding in but hopefully this week. Ill be running temp braces from the main chassis to the tail panel to keep everything in place prior to cutting out the final two trunk rails. I decided it was easier to start fresh than to make the new rails work with the position the orignals are in so out they will come. Ill take more pics this week of that progress, once that and the quarters are out of the way, Ill install the new door skins. The rear is the biggest headache of the whole job so ill be glad to move on from there. You'll notice all that lovely rust under the bubble I found. Looks like a good reason to turf the US spec marker lights doesnt it? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Newman: Just curious if you have a plasma cutter? I used one on my restoration project and it was amazing. I would cut the piece and clamp it up (like you did), and use the edge as the cutting guide. New piece slides in perfectly to match. The cutter I used had a very thin and clean cut and was just right for that slight little gap to start your spot welds. Geez, fixing rust can be so entertaining!
I dont have a plasma cutter and I have no plans to buy one. I know its the cats a$$ but I could pay someone to make the repair for less than the cost of the cutter. Ill do it the ol' fashion way this time. Just some useless info for those out there that like things like that, the frame wall thickness is .060". Very thin in my opinion. I imagine the oval main tubes are thicker, im just playing with the square and rectangular stuff.
Newman, again, amazing pics, I know the feeling you have regarding the rear turn signal area. I had the exact same thing happen to my GT4 except the problem was in the front, not the rear. Luckily, the rust was just starting, yours is much further along. I was able to sandblast the reverse unpainted side and paint with POR-15. I hope the other side of your rear is not rust damaged.
Today I finally got a chance to work on the car. Havent touched it in a week. I bought the steel tubes to make the chassis rails for the trunk. I cut out the remaining rear frame rails, it proved to be easier than making the new rails work with the original stuff. Before I cut the main rails to the tail panel, I measured in a few locations, welded in some temporary braces, measured again, then cut out the old. It hasnt moved but I plan to weld in the new stuff early this week. You can tell its much weaker when you put pressure on the tail panel, I just try not to sit on it when I have a break. Ill clean up the cut welds, cap the ends of the upper frame tubes then I can begin installing the new stuff. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
This afternoon I had some time to fabricate the rear frame section and tack it all into place. First i had to remove all of the old welds that would be impossible to get to once the new frame was in place. Made a hundred measurements, checked and checked again. It all lined up, the angles I had to cut worked out perfectly by pure luck. I ran a 1/16" plate along the rear panel over the shock holes, mounted a 1X1 below it, made the forward cross bar then tied it all together. Ill finish off the welds, cap the two forward upper frame tubes you can see are open and move onto the quarters after Im finished. Finally I see the light at the end of the tunnel at least on the rear half of the car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Looks really nice Paul. To maintain originality, before doing the final welds, be sure to drink at least three glasses of wine to ensure the 'Ferrari' grade of crappy welds.
I wondered how I was going to duplicate the quality welds! I wonder, do you think a few smirnoff ice will do the trick instead?
Any new updates on your project very nice work I must say! I have tackled Corvettes mostly in my past and never had to deal with so much rust but with the correct knowlage anything is posible! Way to many people are afraid to work on their cars but its understandable But for me and As I can see for yourself working on them is half the fun of owning them! looking good! johnny
Ive been working on it but my digital camera went for a crap, just got it back today so Ill take some shots. The new door skins are on, left quarter metal work done, working on right quarter now. Once the metal work is complete (which is soon) the entire car will be soda blasted, primed and the prep stage will begin.
I have been doing the same stuff, removing the US-crap and lowering the floor. Only I used as much as original steel bars as possible, while you build everything new, which looks a lot cleaner and gives much greater owner satisfaction. How are you going to build the floor? I used sheets of alu riveted to the steel bars. I have a flat level trunk now, though the ignition boxes on the left need some kind of protective housing later. Will your side pockets be the same level or even deeper than the center floor? My center floor is just 1 inch above the exhaust now. Not sure if I want to insulate the floor very good, or just forget about putting my groceries in there.
My side boxes are deeper, the same depth as the outside looks because there is no vent behind the wheels on the euro models. I also lowered the forward cross bar that is under the firewall facing the engine and made a new wall from steel. Ill be using sheet steel for the trunk floor as well and welding it in place. I found it easier to remove everything and start from scratch. Nice to see someone else is up to their eyeballs.
Here are the pics I can finally post. I butt welded a patch in the drivers door skin to eliminate the 328 door handle hole. Ill cut the slot for the 308 lever soon. I havent done patch on the right door yet. After the patch I laid a thin layer of light weight filler over it but have to do finishing touches still. The left quarter pic is of the butt welded patch, ground welds and etch primed, no filler but Ill apply a thin layer there as well to make it perfect. I replaced the same amount of metal as I will on the right side. This will eliminate the US spec markers as well. Im moving onto the fender heels next then the soda blasting. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks JB, as long as you guys are interested Ill keep posting. I installed the patch for the right quarter yesterday, ground the welds quickly and had a BBQ so today Ill finish grind inside and out, prime and move onto the right fender. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Paul, Being fairly new to this site I have only found your posts today, but I have now read them all and I am very impressed with your standard of work. I have a 308 GT4 in the same condition as yours is, but I have not done any work on my mine for about three years now. I must get back into my workshop after see yours and the GT4 rebuild in the Showroom area. Thanks for all the pics and information. Regards, Phil.
